Using Keg for HLT & Boil Kettle Not Working Out

[RMCN]

I have brewed about 6 batches of beer so far, and the efficiency has progressively gotten worse. I started with Extract for the first couple and the last 4 have been all grain. I know use a keg for my HLT and Boil kettle and then the Igloo for the MLT.

My last batch I was doing a 90 Min IPA. I started with 8.5 Gallons of water in my HLT (1.5 Gal is below the nozzle level) 7 usable gallons. By the time the wort hit the boil kettle I had roughly 4 Gallons and after a 90 Min boil I ended up with 2 gallons...

With that being said my OG was 1.050 and my target was 1.063. I figured since I ended up with 3 gallons less and I wanted the OG would have been much higher. I use beersmith2 but at times it can be a little over my head when trying to input some of the data for my rig...

How much water do you start with when brewing a 5 gallon batch? 90 min vs 60 min boil? I added a picture of my setup. I am open to any advice, I may brew again on Sun. Thanks

 

[blizz81]

There's probably a lot of questions about process here: ie, are you sparging, are you leaving trub behind in the boil kettle, etc. But I'll just include an example of my water calculations for a 5 gallon batch of moderate grain bill with a batch sparge (I could never quite get BeerSmith to adjust my equipment profile the way I wanted):

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

we will need a little more info to help.

Total water volume depends on the grain bill, and your sparge technique makes a difference too. While normally considered more complicated/advanced, the nice thing about fly sparging is that you can easily nail your pre-boil volume, while getting good efficiency as well. From the looks of your picture, it wouldn't even take more equipment than you already have.

After you mash in, add some water to the HLT and get her heated up to 170 (some folks might even say higher). At the end of the mash, you then add water to the top of the grain bed very gently and slowly, while draining wort off from the MLT valve at the same rate. We are talking SLOW, maybe a pint per minute. Keep an eye on the boil kettle and wait until you get to the desired pre-boil volume. When you do, close the HLT and MLT valves and boil away.

There's bound to be better explanations than that floating around, and I'm sure others will chime in as well.

 

[rekoob]

My last batch I was doing a 90 Min IPA. I started with 8.5 Gallons of water in my HLT (1.5 Gal is below the nozzle level) 7 usable gallons. By the time the wort hit the boil kettle I had roughly 4 Gallons and after a 90 Min boil I ended up with 2 gallons...

Okay, I use three keggles (direct fired), and this is what I do.
- Fill HLT with about 10 gallons of water and start heating to my mash temp (I will bump this up to 170 when almost done with the mash). any extra water will be used to clean when I'm done and I might even add more from the IC during chilling.
- Fill MLT with the amount of water I'm going to mash with (depends on amount of grain and the thickness you want it, I like 1.5:1 or there about). heat to a few degrees above mash temp.
- add grain, recirc, wait... drain to BK. I batch sparge. Start to heat BK.
- add enough water to my MLT to get me to ~1.75 gallons more. (5 gal = 6.75 in BK). I know I'm going to boil off at least 1.5 gallons in 60 minutes.
- drain MLT to BK. If I didn't get to the level I want I would then add a little more to MLT to make up difference and stir, wait, drain to BK.
- at this point I'm about to a boil if not already.

as stated I'm not sure we know enough about your process to help you. maybe you could walk us through what your process is.

 

[Gavin C]

You water calculations should come from something like this.

Batch size (Volume to FV) + Trub loss +Kettle dead space +Boil off rate/hour* length of boil in hours)=preboil volume

For your system based on the info it would be

5+0.25(guess)+1.5+2= 8.75gallon preboil volume

Use this number to calculate how much water you need for strike and sparge total water.

Strike water-Dead space in Mash Tun +Sparge water - volume lost to absorption = Preboil volume.

Software will help. Beersmith is a great tool. You just need to figure it out a bit. Brewers friend or some others are also good.

The key point is to know what preboil you need. FWIW I target 5.5 gallons to FV allowing for 1/2gallon lost to FV trub. Makes racking to keg easier.

 

[RMCN]

I fly sparge, and it usually takes me 45 mins to an hour. I keep the sparge water about an inch above the grain bed during the process.

Should I stir the mash while sparging? Once the sparge is complete should I stir again to retrieve any wort?

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

Your sparge time sounds right. You could keep an extra inch or to on there on top of the grain bed.

One of the things you can do is right before starting the sparge you can run off a quart or two at full throttle to help set the grain bed a little better. Do this into a pitcher or something and put it back in the MLT.

No stirring during the sparge, though stirring during the mash isn't a bad idea.

The idea of fly sparging is that during that 45 minutes all of the sugar slowly migrates downward via diffusion. So, while at the end of the sparge the wort is still wet, its very low gravity and isn't worth the effort or risk of tannin extraction.

Another thing you can check is conversion efficiency vs lauter efficiency. You check conversion efficiency before starting the sparge.

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.ph...e_concept_of_conversion_and_lauter_efficiency

Kai's explanation is better than mine.

As far as volumes go, just keep slowly fly sparging until you get to your desired pre-boil volume.

A different question, how are you measuring gravity and volume?

 

[RMCN]

I measure the gravity by floating the Hydrometer in the wort prior to boiling, I also take a post boil reading and obviously the FG as well.

As far as volume going I have been estimating. Once I put the 8.5 gallons into the HLT its all an estimate from there. I have been wanting to make a measuring stick or etch the inside of my kettle for a more accurate indication.

 

[GotPushrods]

I measure the gravity by floating the Hydrometer in the wort prior to boiling, I also take a post boil reading and obviously the FG as well.

As far as volume going I have been estimating. Once I put the 8.5 gallons into the HLT its all an estimate from there. I have been wanting to make a measuring stick or etch the inside of my kettle for a more accurate indication.

What is the wort temp when you float the hydrometer??? Even if you use a temperature correction factor, it will be wildly inaccurate if the temp is significantly higher than the reference temperature. (Probably 60 or 68 F) You need to cool a sample to roughly room temp, then apply the correction for the small-ish temp difference from reference.

 

[ReverseMonk]

I brew in keggles only, and I typically use between 8-9 gallons (pending grain bill) total for mash/sparge to yield 7 gallons in the boil kettle. I boil for 60 minutes (aggressive boil) and lose right at 1.25 gallons to boil off.

First, it sounds like you are not using any sort of dip tube to be loosing so much water and wort in your keggles. If you're not using a dip tube to siphon off the bottom center of the keggle, I recommend that be your first step. Same for your mash tun.

Second, 7 gallons won't typically be enough (with expected absorption, boil off, and cooling/trub loss) to get you to a full 5 gallon batch. Make adjustments to your water calculations. You need roughly 1-2 more gallons of water to offset normal losses in a moderate gravity mash.

If you do those 2 things, I'd be willing to bet you'll see massive improvement on your next batch.

Cheers,
Brian