Using hot tap water when brewing

[brewmeister13]

I keep seeing people that use hot tap water when brewing to save some time. I know from my wife, who went to culinary school, that you should never use hot water when cooking any food. I figured that this probably should be the case with brewing too.

After doing minimal searching this is what I found. At a minimum the hot water tank can cause concentration of minerals and if you already have hard water it could be coming out much harder. The worst case scenario is that you have lead in your pipes somewhere (either soldering, old piping or even some lead free piping can contain 7% lead per the NYtimes) and it is leaching into the hot water. Hot water more easily dissolves lead and the EPA has warned against using it for cooking, drinking and especially making baby bottles.

Just figured I should pass this along incase it can help anyone.

 

[Hammy71]

No hot tap water here. Straight from the cold tap to the pot (HLT).

 

[tochsner]

I never thought about the minerals in the tank. That would probabaly make a difference. Luckily I have a tankless hot water heater that has flush fittings at the bottom. I run the cold water through a carbon filter to the cold side of my water heater and then run 140* water into my HLT. It works out great. I have noticed no difference except the 30 minutes I get back on my brew day.

 

[glenn514]

My hot water runs through the water softener, adding sodium to the water. The cold water does NOT run through the softener...and that's why I use cold water in all my brews.

glenn514

 

[brewskerdoo]

I have noticed no difference except the 30 minutes I get back on my brew day.

Yup. I agree with this.
Maybe I'm just not smart enough, but I can't understand how a water heater might be concentrating minerals.
What about the water heater changes the makup of water being heated?
I use hot water and I like the beer it makes!

 

[Arrheinous]

Yup. I agree with this.
Maybe I'm just not smart enough, but I can't understand how a water heater might be concentrating minerals.
What about the water heater changes the makup of water being heated?
I use hot water and I like the beer it makes!

The principle is that salts and metals dissolve more easily into hot water than cold water. This would allow things from the tank or pipes to leach into the water.

Solids typically dissolve into liquids better at higher temperatures while gases prefer colder temperatures.

If you prime with corn sugar are you using hot water or cold water to dissolve it?

It's not concentrating the minerals by reducing the volume but increasing the concentration of minerals within the same volume of water. Those are two ways of getting higher concentrations of things.

But for full disclosure I use hot tap water anyway.

 

[the_trout]

I can't understand how a water heater might be concentrating minerals.

Basically hot water dissolves any type of contaminates more quickly and in greater concentration than cold water. Try dissolving a tbl spoon of sugar in a cup of hot water and a cup of cold water and you can see it for yourself. You can also keep adding much more sugar to the hot water before the solution saturates and no more sugar will dissolve. Cold crashing your beer is basically this same process in reverse. Cooling it down lowers the saturation level and causes the solution to precipitate its contaminates. Just like when a warm air mass meets a cold air mass, water vapor drops out of suspension in the form of rain.

Go go science :rockin:

 

[the_trout]

The principle is that salts and metals dissolve more easily into hot water than cold water. This would allow things from the tank or pipes to leach into the water.

Solids typically dissolve into liquids better at higher temperatures while gases prefer colder temperatures.

If you prime with corn sugar are you using hot water or cold water to dissolve it?

It's not concentrating the minerals by reducing the volume but increasing the concentration of minerals within the same volume of water. Those are two ways of getting higher concentrations of things.

But for full disclosure I use hot tap water anyway.

Clearly you type faster than me

 

[cjb]

My plumbing is PEX between the hot water heater and my kitchen faucet, so I'm not concerned about leaching lead or other metals from the pipes. In order to leach anything from the hot water heater itself, there would have to be a failure of the glass lining in the tank - in which case I suspect I would notice the rust that would result from contact with the steel shell.

In short, I'm not worried about it, and it saves a lot of time and propane to use the hottest water I can from the tap.

 

[smakudwn]

Just look on Utube with videos of people cutting open their hot water tank and see what its full of! No thanks I will take the extra time............although a tankless would be awesome@!

 

[cjb]

Just look on Utube with videos of people cutting open their hot water tank and see what its full of! No thanks I will take the extra time............although a tankless would be awesome@!

Is it full of sediment/minerals that came from the water supply? You realize that means the tank is actually filtering those things out, right?

 

[smakudwn]

I dunno mine is always cloudy when pulled from the hot water side. I am going to send some water off to ward labs soon, I guess i could do a side by side see if there is any difference?

 

[brewskerdoo]

The principle is that salts and metals dissolve more easily into hot water than cold water. This would allow things from the tank or pipes to leach into the water.

I know what you're saying about hot water being higher in impurities than cold water because it's higher ability to dissolve minerals, although how much more impure is just speculation unless someone has a hot vs cold water analysts,
Whether the amount of additional impurities in hot water is perceptible or something to be avoided, I suppose everyone needs to consider their water source, water heating components and piping and make that decision themselves.
I've got a Vitraglas enamel lined heater, PEX plumbing with very soft municipal water supply.

How about this, assuming hot water is more able to dissolve minerals and impurities, where are these additional impurities and minerals coming from? Deposits in the water heater tank and hot water plumbing? Wouldn't the hot water flowing trough the system daily, have already rinsed away anything hot water soluble, leaving only insoluble deposits behind so hot vs cold would be the same?


Something else, going back to the dissolving sugar demonstration. I wonder, does water become a better solvent at higher temperatures or does sugar just become more soluble at a higher temp?

My full disclosure... I'm most of the way through my IPA MAXIMUS sixer so at the present time, I be feeling smarter and better looking than I really am. Use anything I've said at your own risk!

 

[RedOktoberfest]

I dunno mine is always cloudy when pulled from the hot water side. I am going to send some water off to ward labs soon, I guess i could do a side by side see if there is any difference?

Look close, it's probably gas coming out of solution.

Analysis paralysis!!! We are all using recycled poo water. Get over it and brew a beer for me. I'm re-decking my deck this weekend so no brewing for me.

 

[ianw58]

Calcium carbonate (CaCO3) will precipitate out of hot water in the water heater. This builds up and forms scale and sediment in the tank. Heavy metals, also present naturally in virtually all sources of water, will also precipitate out, to some extent.

The CaCO3 is present in most water, whether the source is municipal or private well). The rate at which the scale builds up depends on the level of salts in the water and the heat of the water in the tank. This scale is exactly why it is recommended that we drain our water heaters on a regular schedule to remove the sediment.

The first thought that comes to mind is "Wow! This is a good thing! The water heater is taking this stuff out!"

The salts are actually concentrating in the tank. At some point, the levels of the salts in the water coming out of the tank will start increasing.

The levels of CaCO3 and heavy metals in water coming out of your hot water heater are higher than the levels on the cold-side distribution system. This is exactly why chefs, infant care experts, the EPA and a host of others recommend NOT using water from the hot side in preparing food and drinks.

If you're in to the water chemistry aspects of brewing (water profiles, adding salts, etc) you probably have your water distributor's reports in hand. They refer to the water coming into your house, not the water coming out of your water heater. The profile of the water coming out of the water heat will be very different and ever chancing. Without analysis just before brewing, you will never know what the profile is.

A number of years ago, I was a fish tank hobbyist. I futzed with the water coming out of the tap before putting into the aquarium. One day, for some reason, I pulled a smallish amount (pint or so) from the hot water tap. I checked it with one of the fish aquarium "hydrometers" with the floating balls. All the balls floated, meaning the density of the water was in excess of the densest water that could be measured with the unit after adding too much salt! That never happened with the cold water.

 

[declanhalpin]

I think the main reason is the anode inside the water heater is constantly (and intentionally) corroding into the hot water. See this:

http://bostonstandardplumbing.com/water-heater-maintenance-the-sacrificial-anode/

I use a Stainless Indirect holding tank, so the water is held in a 40 gallon stainless vessel with a heating coil going around the outside, so no anode. Works great.

 

[ianw58]

We are all using recycled poo water.

My son just got his T2 Water Treatment Operator license for the State of California yesterday (Hoot! Hoot! - very big deal! And I'm really proud of him!)

He'll tell you that what you say is very true, but, thanks to guys like Alex, it's all CLEAN "poo water"!

 

[Arrheinous]

Something else, going back to the dissolving sugar demonstration. I wonder, does water become a better solvent at higher temperatures or does sugar just become more soluble at a higher temp?

We'd have to get down into the thermodynamics of mixing. The nice neat crystal structure of sugar has a certain stability (lattice enthalpy) to it that must be overcome by heat before you can start pulling away sugar molecules into the water.

I guess on that basis it's the sugar becoming more soluble. But I'm not really sure if you can say water is being a better solvent or sugar is more soluble because you're talking about the interactions of the water-sugar pair - the yin and the yang.

I am half-way through a bottle of graff right now so we'll see how this holds up.