Use campden on fresh cider for graff?

[sloose]

I'm going to attempt brandon O's graff recipe today, going to use US05 from a starter and cascade. I'm going to get a locally sourced unpasteurized fresh cider, no preservatives. Should I use campden tablets first before adding the wort and pitching? Or just screw it, brew the wort and pitch the bugger.

would anyone recommend yeast nutrients? I could pick some up prior to my wort boil (am out of bottles anyway!)

I also have pectic enzyme, Clarity isnt very important to me but I plan on giving a lot of this away, so someone else may be turned off by a haze. At what point would you recommend adding this, if at all?

I also planned on bottle conditioning using dextrose like i normally would with ales, would you add AJ concentrate and and scale back the dextrose? or just dextrose it.

I know this is a made up recipe and I'm asking hypothetical questions with no definitive answers, but any and all help is HIGHLY appreciated.

 

[LeBreton]

I would add the campden and pectic enzyme soon after you get home with the juice. Give them 24 to do their thing. The campden will ward off the worst of the wild nasties and then S-05 will out compete the more mild tasting survivors. Pectinase works best without alcohol present.

Most nutrients will work just fine, no real opinions except I don't like DAP, and personally finds it can leave a lingering flavor in light ciders.

I use AJC all the time for priming. 1 can of the local stuff per 5 gallons is perfect carbonation.

 

[anbowden]

Most nutrients will work just fine, no real opinions except I don't like DAP, and personally finds it can leave a lingering flavor in light ciders.

This may be a dumb questions, but would you recommend a beer yeast nutrient added to the wort?
Or a wine/mead yeast nutrient schedule(Proferm during rehydration; Fermaid K at start of fermentation and at 1/3 sugar depletion)?

Thanks,
Andy

 

[LeBreton]

Since posting that a little less than a year ago I've actually totally re-assessed and re-tooled my yeast rehydration strategy as a result of much research and discussions with commercial winemakers and chemists.

Some of the things I've learned work well for me:
-Yeast cannot consume amino acids while rehydrating, they really just want to absorb water and minerals, so limit the amount of re-hydration nutrients well below the recommended dosage. Instead, reduce yeast osmotic stress by adding the re-hydration nutrients while attemperating the hydrated yeast to the temperature of your juice must.
-Next, products like Fermaid K (which is a mix of organic and inorganic nitrogen) are useful to be added at the start of fermentation as mentioned, but the yeast will not consume the organic nitrogen unless there is enough oxygen present, so if you can oxygenate the must about 24 hrs after pitching.
-Don't use Fermaid style mixed products once fermentation starts in earnest, at this point the yeast just wants inorganic nitrogen, even if they would consume some, there won't be enough oxygen in the ferment for the yeast to use up all the organic nitrogen, so it'll sit around unused in your product and increase the risk of infection later on. Instead, use a sensory analysis to assess whether to add an inorganic nitrogen nutrient like DAP (not too much though) as needed to keep the fermentation happy and healthy.

 

[anbowden]

Thanks for the suggestions. I imagine your recommendations are certainly applicable to winemaking, as well as making cider with wine yeast. But how about cider with beer yeast(or graff with beer yeast)?

On a related note, for "big beers", it's recommended to add some oxygen after ~12-24 hr. of fermentation, but not necessarily for regular beers. Does the same rule of thumb apply to cider(or graff)?

Thanks,
Andy