Unboxing the Nano from CO Brewing

[cyclonebeer]

Is anyone experiencing 3.5 hour mash days and 85% efficiency like the website claims ?

http://cobrewingsystems.com/complete-pro-level-nano-brewer-down-under-single-vessel-brewing-system/

For a simple brew - single infusion, no mashout, no hopstand - I can fill the fermenter in 3.5 hrs. and get started on cleanup.

I regularly get 82% - 85% efficiency (post mash). I do stir the mash alot and I squeeze or press the grain bed with a 5 gal bucket lid during the drain. That speeds up the draining a bit and helps me collect a bit more wort.

 

[jready]

Is anyone experiencing 3.5 hour mash days and 85% efficiency like the website claims ?

http://cobrewingsystems.com/complete-pro-level-nano-brewer-down-under-single-vessel-brewing-system/

Nope but 5 for sure. Efficiency more like 72%. Got a NE IPA going this AM.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1485015029.060537.jpg

 

[Horseflesh]

I have a 5 hour brew day including all cleanup. My last efficiency was 84%, before that I was in the mid 70s. Not sure what changed.

@jready -- are the casters in your picture an easy screw-in replacement for the feet? Got a link?

 

[jahlinux]

I also would like to know more about those casters.

 

[pretzelb]

Brewed a double IPA today and discovered a few things that might interest others. The recipe was 16.25 lbs of grain with a 90 min boil so my water volume was a bit high. The manifold from SS BrewTech worked well again. I did discover that it has to be on the top of the grain bed. I had it about an inch down and I nearly ran the element dry. In the picture I've included you can see how the manifold does a decent job of evenly recirculating. The other thing I've been doing is putting the lid on during mash with a towel to keep the heat in. I think with the manifold this really helps keep a constant temp all around. The one drawback I discovered was I think my hop filter is throwing off my boil. Because the filter is over the heat element the boil looks more violent than it is so I've been dialing down the heat. The result is my evaporation estimates are off. I need to work around this.

 

[jready]

I have a 5 hour brew day including all cleanup. My last efficiency was 84%, before that I was in the mid 70s. Not sure what changed.

@jready -- are the casters in your picture an easy screw-in replacement for the feet? Got a link?

Yes! I just got them. So much better than the cinder blocks I was using. Hopefully this link works. I did two batches yesterday about 11 hours in all efficiency on first batch was 80% second was a five gallon and I miscalculated the water ended up with 7 gallons instead of six after the boil so missed my OG by .1

Schioppa GLEED 512 UPE G L12 Series 5" x 1-1/4" Diameter Swivel Caster with Total Lock Brake, Non-Marking Polyurethane Precision Ball Bearing Wheel, 3/8" Diameter x 1" Length Threaded Stem, 325 lb https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PS77274/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Horseflesh]

That link worked, thanks. Those look perfect.

 

[jready]

That link worked, thanks. Those look perfect.

I am really happy with the made the brew day so much easier.

 

[akthor]

Do you have a sight glass on there? Can I see a pic of it? Did that come from CO or did you source that yourself?

 

[jready]

Do you have a sight glass on there? Can I see a pic of it? Did that come from CO or did you source that yourself?

If you are asking me yes I do and it is a source of frustration. I am thinking of ordering another kettle now sight glass and a whirlpool port. Maybe 5 gal bigger too.

 

[akthor]

Where did you source it? Why is it a source of frustration?

 

[jready]

Where did you source it? Why is it a source of frustration?

Leaks like a sieve. Hard to get it screwed in right hard to clean and provides no useful information. Other than that it's great!🤓

I have wood rule from Home Depot with markers for each gallon much easier to use. I got lazy Saturday on the second batch and just eyeballed it. Not a solid plan

 

[akthor]

Is it DIY or did you buy it? I have the laser etchings on the inside of mine but and extra tri clover fitting I've thought of using for a sight glass.

 

[jready]

Is it DIY or did you buy it? I have the laser etchings on the inside of mine but and extra tri clover fitting I've thought of using for a sight glass.

It was standard when I got it back in March. Laser etched sounds wonderful. The sight glass is just one more thing to clean/break.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Well 40lbs is too much for the 20 gallon system. The 25 probably could've made it work but I gave up before the mash was over and cut my losses. The mash was a brick no matter what I did. I had 17 gallons of water in with 40# of grain and 1# of rice hulls and just couldn't get anything to move.

So far 32# is my top limit.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

So two major brew fails in a row again and I'm about to throw the towel in on this thing. This was a batch I've brewed once already so not sure why it scorched again but it did. Crush was checked with feelers at .045. Did a 120* rest without the element being on, hit the power button to heat up to 154* to mash, and it was instant burn smell. Dumped the kettle to find this for the second time in a row. Any ideas why I'm getting oatmeal outside my basket? I triple checked the crush setting and this happened with the 40# batch also. Same thing, as soon as I hit the power to the element it burned, emptied it to find this in the bottom of the kettle. I'm pretty much at my wit's end today after dumping 70 pounds of grain in two days.

21# Maris otter
4# carapils
4# white wheat
2# flaked oats
.5# rice hulls

 

[pretzelb]

Are you crushing the oats? If so that could be it. Do you have the sight glass installed? The only way I can see it scorching is because it is dry. I need to check my notes but that sounds like too much grain. There is about 4g dead space so you're working with a 16g limit. I'd use 15g in those online tools that predict max mash size.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Are you crushing the oats? If so that could be it. Do you have the sight glass installed? The only way I can see it scorching is because it is dry. I need to check my notes but that sounds like too much grain. There is about 4g dead space so you're working with a 16g limit. I'd use 15g in those online tools that predict max mash size.

No, not crushing the oats. I constantly watch the level outside the basket and if it gets down from even I shut the element off. Lately I sit in my chair right at the kettle and watch it, turn the element on and off but I wasn't even that far yet. I had literally just turned the element on and could smell the burnt wort instantly. I rarely leave it on during the mash anymore. It doesn't really need much heat to stay at desired temperature. This had exactly 16 gallons of water still in the kettle.

Not understanding where the corn meal looking crap came from.

I have one last shot I'm giving this thing before I start a 3 vessel 1 bbl build. Ordered a chugger max and going to run a T fitting to keep the bottom circulating as I'm feeding the top. Should keep anything from sitting still and keep better temp readings. If I can't get 5 consistent brews it'll be up for sale and I'll build a 1 barrel system.

 

[swimIan]

Slow your pump way down.
I'm trying a tee on mine soon.
What about an overflow pipe in the center similar to the grainfather?

 

[pretzelb]

No, not crushing the oats. I constantly watch the level outside the basket and if it gets down from even I shut the element off. Lately I sit in my chair right at the kettle and watch it, turn the element on and off but I wasn't even that far yet. I had literally just turned the element on and could smell the burnt wort instantly. I rarely leave it on during the mash anymore. It doesn't really need much heat to stay at desired temperature. This had exactly 16 gallons of water still in the kettle.

Not understanding where the corn meal looking crap came from.

I have one last shot I'm giving this thing before I start a 3 vessel 1 bbl build. Ordered a chugger max and going to run a T fitting to keep the bottom circulating as I'm feeding the top. Should keep anything from sitting still and keep better temp readings. If I can't get 5 consistent brews it'll be up for sale and I'll build a 1 barrel system.

I'm not an expert but the first thing I find concerning is the recipe.

21# Maris otter
4# carapils
4# white wheat
2# flaked oats
.5# rice hulls

I went back and looked at my notes and for my 20g system the most I've been able to do is 25.75# of grains. And I felt like THAT was pushing it. I used 17.4g of water. So with about the same amount of water you had about 5.25# more grain. Unless our baskets are different I have no idea how you jammed all that grain in there.

And something I didn't note before, not only are you using 2# of oats but also 4# of white wheat. That means about 19% of your grain bill consists of stuff that is known to cause stuck sparge issue. That seems high by itself but I've also heard that some base grains are more prone to cause sparge issues and Maris Otter might be one. I wonder if this were a regular mash tun if you'd be able to drain at all.

But, just with the wheat and oats alone I think .5# of rice hulls is no where near what you'd need. If this were a 5g recipe I'd still say start with a full pound of rice hulls. I tried to find a source on how much to add but nothing came up. I think someone once told me 5% of your grain bill which would at least get you to 1.5# but I can't see even that being enough.

Speaking of which, are you rinsing the rice hulls? I rinse mine to avoid them messing with my absorption estimates. Plus they are very dusty and can really muck things up.

My last two brews with the 20g system were both 5g batches that had 18# and 17.75# grain bills. If your recipe were scaled in half you'd end up with 15.5# grain bill which is close to the batches I just did. Given the wheat and oats you might need to consider this a 5g batch.

I just remembered that I did a wheat wine a few months ago. I had 13# wheat, 6# pale, 1# crystal 40. My notes say I used 1# of rice hulls. I don't think things were perfect but I didn't have major issues.

One last thought, before brewing that wheat wine I think I posted to ask about doing a step mash and the rest period. Someone warned me to not do it. They tried it and it was a gooey mess. Maybe that is what you are seeing?

Again, I'm no expert, just throwing stuff out there. Good luck.

 

[jready]

I haven't had issues with scorching so I'm not much help here. Only thing I notice that seems different than mine (aside from the element change) is your dip tube. Mine points straight down. Could it be turning it sideways is causing the issue? My theory here is that we all probably get some dust that makes its way through the grain bed but if it's constantly recirculating all of the wort it eventually cleans itself up and stays in the bed. With that slight turn I'm wondering if you have some dust that is just sitting down there and waiting to burn. I maybe way off but that's my only guess

 

[Horseflesh]

The CBS docs advise a beta-glucan rest when using unmodified grains. The rest at 120F should have reduced gumminess. It may not have been enough though.

If there was immediate scorching, then that must mean the pump was still outrunning the mash. The rest might need to be longer. When I looked it up I found 15-20 minutes at 113F was supposed to be optimum. But there might have just been too much grain, too.

 

[LouBrew13]

For the record their packaging has improved from what I saw earlier. Mine arrived today!

View attachment 1485376999133.jpg

 

[cyclonebeer]

Hey 02RedW...

Could your scorching be element related? I fried my original element a while back and replaced it with the ripple element with integrated TC flange from Brewhardware. The first one they sent me had about a 3/4" scorched section after the first brew. They sent a replacement and I have never had a problem with it.

 

[pretzelb]

The CBS docs advise a beta-glucan rest when using unmodified grains. The rest at 120F should have reduced gumminess. It may not have been enough though.

If there was immediate scorching, then that must mean the pump was still outrunning the mash. The rest might need to be longer. When I looked it up I found 15-20 minutes at 113F was supposed to be optimum. But there might have just been too much grain, too.

Here is the link where someone said 120 is bad and maybe 105 would work if you do it at all.

 

[Horseflesh]

This was the reference I used:

https://byo.com/mead/item/1497-the-science-of-step-mashing

It lists the beta glucanase range as 95-131F with peak activity at 113F and denaturing at 140F. So, I did it at 113F and didn't have any trouble lautering... but I also only had about 8% oats in that batch.

I've looked for a chart showing activity as a function of temperature and can't find one. If the "activity" range is 95-113F it seems like 120F ought to be in the sweet spot or close to it.

 

[Eamster]

I did a protein rest at 120 for a golden sour that I recently brewed and I would have to agree that the head retention was minimal. When I went to aerate with O2 the bubbles would not form. We will see what it does the the final product in a year or so. It had oats in it and I did have a lot of sediment too. Wouldn't say the element scorched but it did require me to pull it out and scrub more than usual.

 

[cyclonebeer]

Hey 02RedW...

Could your scorching be element related? I fried my original element a while back and replaced it with the ripple element with integrated TC flange from Brewhardware. The first one they sent me had about a 3/4" scorched section after the first brew. They sent a replacement and I have never had a problem with it.

Another issue might be with the mash basket itself. I bought the single vessel system in 2015. At that time, the solid side basket was not an option. From what I read on this thread, most people with the solid side basket have to throttle the pump way down to avoid starving the flow. I've never had that problem with the all mesh basket. 15% flaked products and I run the pump wide open with no problem. Sometimes "new tech" is not "good tech". Perhaps slow flow and high % of flaked stuff allows "stuff" to settle on the element and creates scorching.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Another issue might be with the mash basket itself. I bought the single vessel system in 2015. At that time, the solid side basket was not an option. From what I read on this thread, most people with the solid side basket have to throttle the pump way down to avoid starving the flow. I've never had that problem with the all mesh basket. 15% flaked products and I run the pump wide open with no problem. Sometimes "new tech" is not "good tech". Perhaps slow flow and high % of flaked stuff allows "stuff" to settle on the element and creates scorching.

Pretty sure this is what happened to me.

They canceled my order for the new pump. Reordered at another place that hopefully has it in stock.

Hey 02RedW...

Could your scorching be element related? I fried my original element a while back and replaced it with the ripple element with integrated TC flange from Brewhardware. The first one they sent me had about a 3/4" scorched section after the first brew. They sent a replacement and I have never had a problem with it.

I don't think so. I talked to Kal about it. He's thinking the same as above. Crap settled on the element and not enough movement below the basket.

 

[Irish-Brewer]

Pretty sure this is what happened to me.

They canceled my order for the new pump. Reordered at another place that hopefully has it in stock.



I don't think so. I talked to Kal about it. He's thinking the same as above. Crap settled on the element and not enough movement below the basket.

Have you contacted Tim (CBS owner) regarding some of your problems? I wonder if he could provide some assistance on the matter and evaluate your grain bill to tell you if you are pushing the limits of the 20 gallon kettle. I would like to know what Tim's opinion is as his suggested grain bill limit is for the 15 gallon and 20 gallon system. After reading this forum, I have no idea why a 10 gallon system is even offered. Nobody here seems to have a 10 gallon.