Unboxing the Nano from CO Brewing

[02RedWS6TA]

My system (being delivered today!!) has the whirlpool port. If I whirlpool, do I need a hop spider at all? Or will the whirlpool neatly pile up the trub in the middle?

Never had proper whirlpool gear before, not sure what to expect. I do like the idea of lifting out a lot of the hop pellet goop, though.

I use one, with the plate chiller you absolutely need one.

what chillers are you guys using? I used to have a Hydra IC and loved it. Ended up getting rid of it when I got my CO system because i didn't think i could have it resting on the element. It didn't occur to me at the time that I could use the hoist to suspend it in the wort. I have regretted it big time. I switched to a counter flow chiller which works ok, but i hate the volume loss and cleaning is a pain. The simplicity of an immersion chiller just can't be beat. Anyone using any other immersion chillers that work well..or other recommendations?

I'd love to get a Hydra again, but i dont think SWMBO will go for it.

I use a 30 plate chiller from duda diesel. Works ok, when it doesn't plug it chills extremely fast. 10 gallons down in roughly 15 min right now in Michigan.

For those interested here's a video doing a fairly large brain bill. This was the second brew of the day and quite a few beers in so excuse how fast I pour the grains in.

https://youtu.be/qnr9fvuBKqk

 

[Horseflesh]

I'm using an immersion chiller and found that on my first run with the Nano, just dropping in pellets, I got a nice pile of hop trub in the middle of the kettle. That was a hefeweizen though, we'll see what happens with tonight's pale ale... not sure how much hop goop you can have before you need some sort of strainer.

 

[akthor]

I have an Exchillrator Maxx UV for my 1 bbl system I'll report back after I use it. I just have the pot and basket from CO Brewing. Sourced everything else from different places.

 

[Horseflesh]

The numbers are in... 74.1% mash efficiency from batch 1, and 70.6% from tonight's run. First batch was milled once, second batch went through twice. It's the LHBS mill though and I'm not sure what the gap is. Also, totally different mashes and malts, so it isn't apples to apples. Still, I'd like those numbers higher.

You guys with good efficiency, how do you mill? That seems like a good place to start.

 

[jahlinux]

I just ordered the 25 gallon "Down Under". Looks like a ton of great info on this thread. Looking forward to reading through it all.

 

[Horseflesh]

Congrats @jahlinux!

Another question from me for more experienced electric brewers... Do you ever get light scorching or carmelization on your element? On my second batch I was conservative with pump speed, and had my boil maintained at 60% power. I still got a small brown spot on the element as seen in the picture.

I scraped some off and tasted it, and didn't notice any burnt flavors. The whole brown spot also came off pretty easily when I cleaned the element. So, is this typical, or trouble?

In other news, I was able to nail my volumes on the 20 gal Nano Home with these Beersmith settings.

BIAB Grain Absorption: 0.4960 fl oz/oz (and I squeezed the mash with the back of a big spoon while it dripped dry, but did not go nuts with trying to get every drop.)

Boil-off: 1.35 gal/hr when cruising at 60% power

Loss to kettle: 0.25 gal (and this was with almost 6 oz of hop pellet sludge)

My efficiency is not great though, 70-74% so far.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

I get some light scorching every batch. No worries.

 

[Horseflesh]

Thank you for the reassurance!

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Thank you for the reassurance!

I hate smokey beers but my first one got ruined because I scorched it so bad. Would've been passable as a smoked stout though honestly. It was scorched so bad I had to clean it with muratic acid and clr.

I usually just soak it in pbw,heat it up to 180, and let it sit with the lid on over night. Cleans right up in the morning the next day.

 

[Horseflesh]

I scorched my first batch, but just barely. You can taste if when it warms, but it's subtle. There was about 1 square inch of pure black on the element and it took a PBR soak and some scraping to remove it. Batch 2, pictured above, seemed fine and was pretty easy to clean. Whew!

 

[molson]

I scorched my first batch, but just barely. You can taste if when it warms, but it's subtle. There was about 1 square inch of pure black on the element and it took a PBR soak and some scraping to remove it. Batch 2, pictured above, seemed fine and was pretty easy to clean. Whew!

I'm about to do my batch on the system too, and want to avoid scorching it. What caused it? Any tips to avoid it?

 

[30Bones]

I'm about to do my batch on the system too, and want to avoid scorching it. What caused it? Any tips to avoid it?

IMO, the wort can't get recirculated fast enough to avoid it to some extent. I spent a while Sunday scrubbing and soaking my element to still not get all the crust off. I am still on the fence about how awesome or mediocre this system is. Tempted to use the system for my HLT and BK and continue to use my old cooler as the MT and batch sparge again. Haven't thrown in the towel just yet.

I was hoping for a single kettle system, no sparging and ability to go above 1.050 for a 10 gallon batch and that is not possible.

 

[jimyson]

I don't have this system, rather my own recirculating eBIAB setup. When do you think things are getting scorched? Do you dial the power level back on the element at all during your process?

 

[02RedWS6TA]

I'm about to do my batch on the system too, and want to avoid scorching it. What caused it? Any tips to avoid it?

Keep a really close eye on the level of liquid outside the basket. Or get up to temp, shut element off, and put the lid on it.

IMO, the wort can't get recirculated fast enough to avoid it to some extent. I spent a while Sunday scrubbing and soaking my element to still not get all the crust off. I am still on the fence about how awesome or mediocre this system is. Tempted to use the system for my HLT and BK and continue to use my old cooler as the MT and batch sparge again. Haven't thrown in the towel just yet.

I was hoping for a single kettle system, no sparging and ability to go above 1.050 for a 10 gallon batch and that is not possible.

With the 25 gallon kettle that should be pretty easy. I just did it in my 20 gallon two brews ago no problem too, 1.061 no sparge and a 10 gallon batch. We did 1.072 last batch and held back 2 gallons, I poured it over the basket quick and was done. I'd say 1.060 is pretty easy with no sparge, 1.070 would be pushing it but doable.

 

[30Bones]

Keep a really close eye on the level of liquid outside the basket. Or get up to temp, shut element off, and put the lid on it.



With the 25 gallon kettle that should be pretty easy. I just did it in my 20 gallon two brews ago no problem too, 1.061 no sparge and a 10 gallon batch. We did 1.072 last batch and held back 2 gallons, I poured it over the basket quick and was done. I'd say 1.060 is pretty easy with no sparge, 1.070 would be pushing it but doable.

Forgot to mention I target a fermenter volume of 11 gallons as well. I could dial that back to up my OG I guess. 20 gallon kettle here

 

[Horseflesh]

I don't have this system, rather my own recirculating eBIAB setup. When do you think things are getting scorched? Do you dial the power level back on the element at all during your process?

I think I got minor scorching on my first batch because I had the element power on too high during the boil... about 75%. On my second batch, with boil at 60% (and about 7.5 gal in the kettle) I only got one small brown spot as in my photo, and that appears to be fine.

In both batches I was using the pump pretty aggressively, but saw good motion in the mash... so I don't think I starved the pump and exposed the element.

This brings up another topic which I have not yet broached on the thread because I don't think there are other users here with the touchscreen... I'm wondering if there's a bug in the anti-scorch boil feature. It is also possible I just have incorrect expectations for a 5500W 20 gallon electric kettle, so I am really curious what you PID users are experiencing.

This is how boiling works with the touchscreen: you put in a target temperature which is a few degrees under boil, and an element power percentage. When it hits the target, it reduces element power from 100% to the cruise value. That is pretty cool, right?

However, even testing with water, I could not actually get my kettle to 212F. I could barely hit 210F with 80% element power and just 8 gallons of water!

The boil feature definitely reduces power when it hits the target temperature... You can hear the element get quieter and the temperature stops climbing so quickly. But I wonder if there's a bug in the software and it's not doing exactly what it says it's doing.

I was so surprised that I could not easily boil water that I verified my true boiling point (211.8F), verified water temperature with a Thermapen, verified voltage at the wall socket, and verified voltage at the element connection on the control box. I also verified the time to change water temperature by a certain amount, to make sure I was getting 5500W of juice into the kettle. Everything looked fine.

Then, I did my first batch and chose 75% power to maintain boil. That was apparently too much, as I got a burned spot... but it also didn't get the wort temperature above 208-209F.

Second batch, I backed down to 60%, which got the kettle to 207-208F, but no objectionable burning.

In all cases the water or wort is definitely roiling, and you can see vapor bubbles coming off the element. But the temperature of the whole body of liquid was nowhere near the actual boiling point.

I decided not to worry about it too much. They make beer in Colorado and the boiling point is just 203F. But I wonder why my kettle doesn't get as hot as I expect. Is it just because it's an uninsulated kettle with a giant surface area in a 56F environment? It could be that simple.

 

[02RedWS6TA]

Forgot to mention I target a fermenter volume of 11 gallons as well. I could dial that back to up my OG I guess. 20 gallon kettle here

I shoot for 10.5 to 11 gallons also. The 1.072 was 11 gallons in the fermenters.

 

[DarkStormBrewing]

I've had my system 20 gal/hard sided basket since June this year. Although I've only brewed on it twice, I'm loving it. Brew day is about 4.5 hours with step mashes. I came from a 3V Hermes electric brewery with diy panel, which now has 2x the pids and sensors I need for this simple set up.

I think I have my water absorption rate and boil off rate down, my efficiency I'm not sure because I missed my target volumes both times. I really like this type of system and wish I would have been able to step from propane to this instead of building a value conscious version of the electric brewery.

I'm chilling with a 50' ss immersion chiller, and having decent success, 1/2 hour or so to 68F. This thread has been a good source of info and look forward to others experiences.

 

[sgraham602]

did anybody ever sort out the max capacity of the grain basket? I know there was some discrepancy about the 15g vs 20g mash capacity on BS and COs profile. Just interested to find out what the top limits are (without having to do a sparge).

 

[02RedWS6TA]

did anybody ever sort out the max capacity of the grain basket? I know there was some discrepancy about the 15g vs 20g mash capacity on BS and COs profile. Just interested to find out what the top limits are (without having to do a sparge).

For the 20 it'll completely depend on your end batch Size but let's stick at 10 gallons. Id say you're going to max around 28lbs for a finished 11 gallons of wort. 30-31 would be possible but you'd really have to be on your game and no flaked oats or wheat. At least in my experience, 8 brews since August.

I have a 30lb grain bill with hopes of 15 gallons of wort at the end scheduled for Dec 17th but I'll be doing a sparge.

 

[LouBrew13]

Pulled the trigger today on a 20 gallon Nano home... Now the waiting

 

[Horseflesh]

Congrats!

Maybe we need a combined owner's thread for Nanos and Down Unders.

 

[jahlinux]

Pulled the trigger today on a 20 gallon Nano home... Now the waiting

Awesome! I'm waiting patiently for my "Down Under".

 

[sgraham602]

anyone received their COBS with the touch screen panel? I'd be interested to hear how it works. After using my system for a year, there are one or two things I wish I'd done differently. Didn't have the option for the touchscreen when I ordered, but I'm not sure I would have gone that way anyhow.

 

[Horseflesh]

I have the touchscreen. To make a long story short, it works OK, but it has a number of very irritating bugs and user interface issues.

For example, when you are editing a recipe, there is a "clear" button. If you push "clear" it immediately, and without warning or request for confirmation, deletes all recipes in the computer. There's no good reason for a "nuke all my data" button to be in the recipe edit mode, danger close to the "save" button.

There's another place where you can enter a target temperature for boiling. When it hits the target, it drops element power to a maintenance level you specify. Nice! But the target temp field will only accept values up to 100. So, if you want to operate in F and not C, you need to change the preferences to C, enter a boil temperature like 99, and then switch back to F. So, there's easy workaround, but it's definitely a bug.

You can enter all of your hop steps and timers into a recipe, and it will beep and put up a message so you know what to drop into the pot. This is cool. What is not cool is that the screen doesn't show you a countdown to your next step. It only shows the longest timer, the boil time. So you STILL need to have a timer in your pocket, unless you are sitting by the kettle the entire time. Which, in a commercial setting, could be the case. Not great for a home user, though.

I could go on. I actually sent them about 4 pages of detailed bug/usability reports with repro steps and suggested changes. I know they are making the software themselves and I hope they keep improving it.

That all said I am glad I got the touchscreen. It's easy to set up a multi-step mash, and really cool to be able to walk away from the kettle for more than an hour while it does the magic for you. Setting a PID manually isn't exactly hard, but it is sure nice to automate things.

Here's a thread where I posted pictures: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?p=7765196

 

[pgk]

Have you heard back from Tim yet?

 

[Horseflesh]

I haven't heard from Tim, but to be fair I prefaced my big bug report with, "this isn't a complaint, I am just trying to help, and I don't need a point by point reply." I didn't want to sound like an angry customer, because I'm not. If they actually evaluate the material I sent, that is all the thanks I need.

I do think they can save themselves effort by investing a little time into things like writing a manual... Just a page, even. I had to ask a question on the forum about something really basic, which turned out to require an invisible button press... Write that stuff down once and send it with the unit, instead of fielding questions over and over, ya know? But I think they are more focused on welding than software. Can't blame them if that's where the money is.

On their official forums I did suggest making an official release thread listing changes, and an official bug reporting thread. No nibbles on either. They may be reluctant to do things like that because a few loud customers could cost them a lot of time, or even generate ill will if that time isn't invested. I understand the challenges, having worked in similar circumstances.

When I buy a gadget, my philosophy is that I better be happy with what I get and software upgrades are a bonus. I would certainly like them to improve the PLC's most irritating issues, but even if they never do, I am glad I have it.

 

[jimyson]

I haven't heard from Tim, but to be fair I prefaced my big bug report with, "this isn't a complaint, I am just trying to help, and I don't need a point by point reply." I didn't want to sound like an angry customer, because I'm not. If they actually evaluate the material I sent, that is all the thanks I need.

I do think they can save themselves effort by investing a little time into things like writing a manual... Just a page, even. I had to ask a question on the forum about something really basic, which turned out to require an invisible button press... Write that stuff down once and send it with the unit, instead of fielding questions over and over, ya know? But I think they are more focused on welding than software. Can't blame them if that's where the money is.

On their official forums I did suggest making an official release thread listing changes, and an official bug reporting thread. No nibbles on either. They may be reluctant to do things like that because a few loud customers could cost them a lot of time, or even generate ill will if that time isn't invested. I understand the challenges, having worked in similar circumstances.

When I buy a gadget, my philosophy is that I better be happy with what I get and software upgrades are a bonus. I would certainly like them to improve the PLC's most irritating issues, but even if they never do, I am glad I have it.

Such logic.

 

[jahlinux]

anyone received their COBS with the touch screen panel? I'd be interested to hear how it works. After using my system for a year, there are one or two things I wish I'd done differently. Didn't have the option for the touchscreen when I ordered, but I'm not sure I would have gone that way anyhow.

I have a "Down Under" on order. What would you have done differently besides the touchscreen? I didn't go with the touchscreen, I like the simplicity of manual controls.

 

[sgraham602]

I have a "Down Under" on order. What would you have done differently besides the touchscreen? I didn't go with the touchscreen, I like the simplicity of manual controls.

I had them build a track on mine similar to the bigger systems that they make, that way I can slide the mash basket away from the kettle and lower it onto the ground. It works great (one I added counter weights), but the only downside is that you have to remove all of the fittings in order to get the kettle off of the stand. Makes clean up a little tough.