Two recipes in a row advice

[Torchiest]

Okay, I'm planning on trying to reuse a yeast cake in a couple weeks. Monday, I'm going to brew a honey blonde. This is the recipe:

Blonde Bombshell
5.00 lb Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 55.6 %
1.00 lb Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 11.1 %
1.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 11.1 %
1.00 oz Saaz [4.00%] (40 min) Hops 12.5 IBU
1.00 oz Crystal [3.50%] (5 min) Hops 2.5 IBU
2.00 lb Honey (1.0 SRM) Sugar 22.2 %
1 Pkgs Burton Ale (White Labs #WLP023) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.052 SG (1.045-1.060 SG)
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.014 SG (1.008-1.015 SG)
Estimated Color: 9.0 SRM (2.0-8.0 SRM)
Bitterness: 14.9 IBU (15.0-33.0 IBU)
Alpha Acid Units: 0.8 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 4.9 % (4.0-6.0 %)

Now, I'm figuring it should be ready to move to secondary by the next Thursday, ten days later. At that point, I'm going to brew a double IPA, with this recipe:

Imperious IPA
Ingredients Amount Item Type % or IBU
10.00 lb Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 74.1 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.7 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 3.7 %
0.50 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3.7 %
0.50 oz Summit [18.00%] (60 min) Hops 19.6 IBU
0.50 oz Summit [18.00%] (40 min) Hops 17.2 IBU
0.50 oz Summit [18.00%] (20 min) Hops 11.9 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00%] (60 min) Hops 10.9 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00%] (40 min) Hops 9.5 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00%] (20 min) Hops 6.6 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50%] (60 min) Hops 6.0 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50%] (40 min) Hops 5.2 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50%] (20 min) Hops 3.6 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [5.50%] (10 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00%] (10 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
0.50 oz Summit [18.00%] (10 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops -
1.00 lb Brown Sugar, Light (8.0 SRM) Sugar 7.4 %
1.00 lb Honey (1.0 SRM) Sugar 7.4 %

Beer Profile Estimated Original Gravity: 1.089 SG (1.075-1.095 SG)
Estimated Final Gravity: 1.023 SG (1.012-1.020 SG)
Estimated Color: 11.6 SRM (8.0-15.0 SRM)
Bitterness: 90.4 IBU (60.0-110.0 IBU)
Alpha Acid Units: 10.1 AAU
Estimated Alcohol by Volume: 8.8 % (7.5-10.0 %)

I'm attempting to come kinda close to Dogfish Head 90 Minute, but not necessarily clone it. I'm thinking I can take out the brown sugar and honey and just add a couple more pounds of LME, but I was curious if anyone had any opinions on that.

Also, if anyone thinks these recipes are way off base in general, I'd like to hear advice on how to alter them. I think the hops schedule is pretty good for the IPA, but I was also curious about dry-hopping, and how/when you do that. My understanding is you just throw into the secondary, but doesn't that get junk in the bottles/keg? Wouldn't it be better to put it in the primary? Thanks for any tips!

 

[the_bird]

If you dry-hop in the primary, the CO2 bubbles will escape with all of your hop aroma. The hop pellets will usually sink to the bottom of the secondary fermenter (some will float), in any case as long as you're not too greedy you can leave them behind when you rack to the bottling bucket. Even easier, get a hop bag and use whole hops (weigh the bag down with some sanitized marbles or something similar).

I just did an IPA that I am in love with that used three pounds of Munich; don't be afraid of this malt, it gives a lot of character, a lot of balance to a very hoppy beer.

 

[Torchiest]

Okay, cool, I can probably bump the Munich up a couple pounds. As for the dry-hopping, how much should I use? An ounce of each of the three? I don't really know anyone that has used the Summit yet, but it's supposed to be ridiculous. The LHBS lady keeps saying it's really skunky, lol, but I've read it has a great orange citrus flavor/aroma which I think will work well with the two C's.

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

You may also want to consider adding some dextrose to that IIPA to dry it out a bit. It's easy to make them almost undrinkable since it will be difficult to get the FG down with all that extract.

 

[the_bird]

Okay, cool, I can probably bump the Munich up a couple pounds. As for the dry-hopping, how much should I use? An ounce of each of the three? I don't really know anyone that has used the Summit yet, but it's supposed to be ridiculous. The LHBS lady keeps saying it's really skunky, lol, but I've read it has a great orange citrus flavor/aroma which I think will work well with the two C's.

An ounce each might be a bit much; it sucks to lose more brew than you have to when racking. A half ounce each, 1.5 ounces total, strikes me as about right.

And Cheyco's right - a true IPA wants to be pretty dry, so you might think about - GASP - even using a pound or so of corn sugar to replace some of the other fermentables. Some IPAs are more full-bodied than others, but it is easy for a big IPA to get a little syrupy. 1.023 is really high for a FG, play around with the recipe and see if you can get that closer to 1.018 or so.

 

[Torchiest]

Wait a second. An EAC just recommended the use of corn sugar?!

Seriously though, I can see how that could help. I was thinking of adding more honey also, since that ferments out pretty much completely.

EDIT: I've been playing around with it, and it seems like there's no way for me to get an FG below 1.020 without significantly lowering my OG. Maybe Imperial IPAs just aren't meant to be dry when done with extract.

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

EDIT: I've been playing around with it, and it seems like there's no way for me to get an FG below 1.020 without significantly lowering my OG. Maybe Imperial IPAs just aren't meant to be dry when done with extract.

How are you predicting this?

 

[Torchiest]

I'm using BeerSmith.

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

I'm not saying Beersmith will be wrong, but all those programs do is take the yeast manufacturer's attenuation numbers and multiply it by your OG.

There is no guaranteed way of predicting FG. Brew that recipe the way it is and throw a pound of dextrose in it. Try it out and see what you get.

 

[the_bird]

We were just talking about this the other day, niether BeerSmith nor ProTools is intelligent enough to recognize that corn sugar is 100% fermentable (or that lactose is 0% fermentable).

Anyone know if BeerTools Pro can account for this?

 

[Torchiest]

Yeah, it gives the same rate of fermentation for honey as it does for LME. Corn sugar seems to do better, but perhaps not good enough in the calculations. However, those numbers were with the Burton Ale, which has a relatively low attentuation. I get slightly better numbers with Nottingham. I went to the LHBS and they had not yet gotten the Burton Ale yeast in anyway. I think I might just skip the Blonde Ale for now and make the IIPA first with Nottingham instead of racking onto a yeast cake.

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

IIPA first with Nottingham instead of racking onto a yeast cake.

If you're going to make a big beer like that, I'd pitch onto a yeast cake (or at least use the proper amount of cake slurry) - especially since you are already having concerns about it finishing. Underpitching isn't going to help you at all.

http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php

 

[Torchiest]

Well, I was thinking about using two packages of Nottingham. I've done liquid yeast starters with some previous batches, with great results. I made a big one for my Trappist, which had a blow off as a result. :rockin: I just don't want to push my whole brewing schedule back. It's been almost two weeks since I brewed; I'm fiending! :cross: I suppose I should just brew something else entirely in the meantime, then try this idea later.