Too Much Water In Da Keezer!

[Imburr]

I have an unusual setup. I have a standard 7.1 Cu. ft. deep freezer in my basement. I installed a 2x6 collar on it, and insulated that with 1" foam board. Out of this collar, I ran a 3" PVC line up to my tower, which is 16' of pipe away upstairs, probably 10 linear feet. I wrapped the PVC in some metal bubble R3 wrap.

I ran 4 beer lines up the pipe to the beer tower. I also ran a 1" liquidtight conduit all the way tp unto the tower.

I use a server fan to force cold air down the 3" pvc, and the return is the 1" liquidtight. When I turn it on, it blows and the cold air blowing out of the conduit is also cold. It does a "decent" job of cooling the tower... Certainly not serving temp, but the air in the tower is maybe 45-50 degrees instead of 70 ambient.

The pipe coming out of the collar sweat a LOT. like drip drip drip. The bottom of my keezer fills with a considerable amount of water. I checked under the freezer, and under it was a standing puddle of water. So I emptied it all out and caulked all seams on the keezer. Then ran it again and same puddle.

Not sure if its a leak from inside, or condensate form outside pipes dripped down and running in.

I know about the rechargable damp-rid, but this is a serious volume of water. I can go down once a night and empty out maybe 2 cups of water. It appears to be dripping down the freezer sides when it freezes and thaws. Also, it drips from the pipes leaving the collar.

My thought is to replace the 3" PVC with 3" foam pipe which has a much better R-value.

Any advice, stories, tips, etc?

 

[IslandLizard]

Check if the drain plug in the bottom of your keezer is leaking.

Otherwise water must be coming from the outside, from condensate and/or leaks?

The soft neoprene foam pipe insulation they use around air conditioning pipes is much better than the stiff closed cell waterline foam insulation. They use something similar around commercial trunk lines.

Now if you can keep condensation on the outside of your PVC pipe at bay, and you have the extra space around it, glass fiber (wall) insulation works really well at 2-3" thick. It's just bulky. Styrofoam is also an excellent insulator.

 

[passedpawn]

I'd replace the pipe with micromatic trunk line. It's fairly expensive, but so is doing it 5 different ways until you get it right.

https://www.micromatic.com/1-4-inch...-inch-id-4-products-w-2-glycol-lines-cdi442-x

 

[IslandLizard]

I'd replace the pipe with micromatic trunk line.

Looking at that picture, it looks like they're using closed cell foam, not the soft AC stuff. Closed cell may indeed be better as it won't get soaked, it can easily shed any water that collects inside. Wet, water filled insulation has no insulating properties.

Can't be too hard to build your own...

4-9 tubes of 0.2" BevSeal Ultra 235 around 2 wider glycol/cooling fluid lines.

 

[Imburr]

I'd replace the pipe with micromatic trunk line. It's fairly expensive, but so is doing it 5 different ways until you get it right.

https://www.micromatic.com/1-4-inch...-inch-id-4-products-w-2-glycol-lines-cdi442-x



View attachment 577562

I would love too, but I dont plan on doing Glycol- so I need air and return. This pipe would not work well for that as the air needs to circulate around the better lines.

 

[Imburr]

Check if the drain plug in the bottom of your keezer is leaking.

I would assume it leaks, but not sure it leaks this much. Anyhow, I will fill it in and see. I suppose I could actually run a drain line to somwhere.

 

[Imburr]

So right now I have white 3" PVC with lines and conduit floating inside. I was thinking I could wrap it in something like this: https://www.gamut.com/c/insulation/...cwmNyfwyZqxyzYadACpOrgiU6u5XdXuhoCiKcQAvD_BwE

Or even... could I remove the white PVC and just run this soft tubing, and then float the lines inside of it?

 

[passedpawn]

I would love too, but I dont plan on doing Glycol- so I need air and return. This pipe would not work well for that as the air needs to circulate around the better lines.

I don't have experience with any of it, but it would seem that at least running fridge-temp water would be better than air. Glycol systems are pretty danged expensive, but water would only require a simple immersible pond pump and a some sort of reservoir (I think )

 

[Imburr]

I don't have experience with any of it, but it would seem that at least running fridge-temp water would be better than air. Glycol systems are pretty danged expensive, but water would only require a simple immersible pond pump and a some sort of reservoir (I think )

Yeah I dont know... there are several posts in here about using air with success. Plus, I am already setup for air- switching to a liquid line is much more work.

 

[day_trippr]

One detail I don't get: running the return line inside the trunk. The air in that line will surely have warmed significantly on its trip through the 3" pipe so the efficiency of the whole cooling scheme is compromised.

I have never seen a similar scheme on HBT. Folks that go the air-cooled route typically use a separate return to the cold box (fridge or keezer) of equal ID as the driven side. And they insulate that side just as well as the other, for energy conservation reasons.

I suggest giving that a try...

Cheers!

 

[Imburr]

One detail I don't get: running the return line inside the trunk. The air in that line will surely have warmed significantly on its trip through the 3" pipe so the efficiency of the whole cooling scheme is compromised.

I have never seen a similar scheme on HBT. Folks that go the air-cooled route typically use a separate return to the cold box (fridge or keezer) of equal ID as the driven side. And they insulate that side just as well as the other, for energy conservation reasons.

I suggest giving that a try...

Cheers!

The return line is thick conduit, and the air returning is not actually that warm. I get condensate all the way up to the beer tower. I am not able to run a separate return line due to how my house was built. The airflow and cooling is actually pretty great, if I could overcome the liquid issue.

 

[Imburr]

The only reason for me to do the return line is to keep air flowing. If all I had was 3" PVC and put a fan on the end, it wouldnt push air up. So by adding a full length of conduit, the air blown into the pipe has a return path... after it travels into the top of the beer tower and then into the conduit.

 

[day_trippr]

Yeah, I'm sure everyone got that. But you're returning warm air through the same tube that you're trying to keep cool. Plus that 16 foot long 1" return tube has to be highly restrictive.
Again, a separate return would enhance the performance, there's no doubt.

Cheers!

 

[Imburr]

Yeah so I am sure its not as efficient as other solutions, but its what I got. Cools my tower temp by ~20 degrees. With the cool air cooling the return as well, the air being returned is not significantly warmer its still cool air being blown into the bottom of the keezer.

A separate return would improve performance no doubt- as would Glycol. But neither are options, so tyring to work with what I got.

 

[IslandLizard]

So right now I have white 3" PVC with lines and conduit floating inside. I was thinking I could wrap it in something like this: https://www.gamut.com/c/insulation/...cwmNyfwyZqxyzYadACpOrgiU6u5XdXuhoCiKcQAvD_BwE

Or even... could I remove the white PVC and just run this soft tubing, and then float the lines inside of it?

That's the soft rubber foam HVAC pipe insulation I was referring to before. The in- and out-side skins are smooth and closed, but the interior is an open cell structure, so that shouldn't get wet or it will lose its insulating properties, becoming an energy drain instead.

 

[Imburr]

That's the soft rubber foam HVAC pipe insulation I was referring to before. The in- and out-side skins are smooth and closed, but the interior is an open cell structure, so that shouldn't get wet or it will lose its insulating properties, becoming an energy drain instead.

Ok. So even though my lines SHOULD stay dry, it is probably a risk to plumb just that foam tubing and run the lines inside. Or... could I do it if it was drained? The pipe is at a steep angle, any liquid spills run down and out.

I guess I would be best off wrapping my standard white PVC with that foam to give it less of a chance to get condensate on it?

 

[IslandLizard]

Ok. So even though my lines SHOULD stay dry, it is probably a risk to plumb just that foam tubing and run the lines inside. Or... could I do it if it was drained? The pipe is at a steep angle, any liquid spills run down and out.

I guess I would be best off wrapping my standard white PVC with that foam to give it less of a chance to get condensate on it?

The closed cell foam, as used in trunk lines @passedpawn posted a picture of will not saturate itself with water. It think that's safer and easier to use. Probably less costly too. That open cell HVAC foam is pricey as heck in larger diameters.

Since you use the PVC pipe as your cold air duct, it should be insulated.