Tiny Bubbles?

[Wine Newbie]

I finished fermenting my first gallon of wine and left it in the glass jug for two weeks after the first rack. Alcohol content was good, smelled great and tasted pretty good. I decided to back sweeten the wine as if was very dry.

Little by little I got it to where I like it and then left it with an airlock on it. Now it has very small bubbles rising and periodic gas escaping through the airlock.

Did I do something wrong?

 

[MaxStout]

Are you back-sweetening in the glass at serving, or did you back-sweeten the whole batch in the fermenter? If the latter, did you stabilize the wine (with sorbate) before back-sweetening?

If fermentation's done, you're seeing CO2 coming out of solution.

 

[Wine Newbie]

I back sweetened when I racked the second time. I did not add sorbate (is that camden tablets?)

I thought it was C02 and just let the bubbles proceed to a couple of days and then stirred vigorously to release the C02 but am still getting the bubbles. Is it normal for the C02 to bubble off for an extended period of time?

 

[MaxStout]

If you back-sweetened without stabilizing the wine, the yeast will simply ferment that added sugar and you'll end up with a dry wine again. The bubbles you are seeing are from fermentation of your added sugar.

Sorbate is not Campden, but to stabilize you add both. Campden is potassium or sodium metabisulfite.

 

[Wine Newbie]

If you back-sweetened without stabilizing the wine, the yeast will simply ferment that added sugar and you'll end up with a dry wine again. The bubbles you are seeing are from fermentation of your added sugar.

Sorbate is not Campden, but to stabilize you add both. Campden is potassium or sodium metabisulfite.

OK great and thanks for all the information. So I should wait until after all the bubbles stop before I add the sorbate and campden and those two will stop the yeast....and I will need to back sweeten again?

 

[MaxStout]

Exactly.

 

[hungupdown]

OK great and thanks for all the information. So I should wait until after all the bubbles stop before I add the sorbate and campden and those two will stop the yeast....and I will need to back sweeten again?

Yes. But may be better not to wait, till bubbles from fermentation of sweetening sugar stops. As wine should already have reached the correct strength, (when the initial fermentation ended).

It's mostly the Potassium Sorbate, that stops the yeast.
But it's the enzymes, created by the yeast, that convert sugar to ethanol and CO2.
When yeast activity ends, there will still be residual enzymes. These will ferment some of the 'final' sweeting sugar, so you might still get some more bubbles (and need more sugar than you'd expect).

 

[Wine Newbie]

Yes. But may be better not to wait, till bubbles from fermentation of sweetening sugar stops. As wine should already have reached the correct strength, (when the initial fermentation ended).

It's mostly the Potassium Sorbate, that stops the yeast.
But it's the enzymes, created by the yeast, that convert sugar to ethanol and CO2.
When yeast activity ends, there will still be residual enzymes. These will ferment some of the 'final' sweeting sugar, so you might still get some more bubbles (and need more sugar than you'd expect).

OK thanks for the information. I uploaded a quick video of my situation. You can see the tiny bubbles and the gas escaping. That is further fermentation because of the back sweetening without ensuring the yeast was dead by adding the sorbate and camden?

 

[MaxStout]

Adding sorbate and metabisulfite now won't work, as those will not stop an active fermentation. You have an active fermentation, due to the backsweetening sugar you added.

Wait until fermentation is done. Sure, you'll have higher alcohol content than you planned, due to the added sugar. But fermentation needs to be complete.

Dissolve the sorbate and metabisulfite in some boiling water and pour it into a secondary vessel. Rack your wine into the new vessel and let it sit a couple days. Then add the backsweetening sugar.

 

[Bobby_M]

OK thanks for the information. I uploaded a quick video of my situation. You can see the tiny bubbles and the gas escaping. That is further fermentation because of the back sweetening without ensuring the yeast was dead by adding the sorbate and camden?

No mystery there. It's an active fermentation. As others said, you have to stabilize (kill and neuter) after fermentation ends if you want to back sweeten. The only other ways, less practical, is to sterile filter all the yeast out first or reach an alcohol level that the yeast cannot tolerate.

 

[Wine Newbie]

No mystery there. It's an active fermentation. As others said, you have to stabilize (kill and neuter) after fermentation ends if you want to back sweeten. The only other ways, less practical, is to sterile filter all the yeast out first or reach an alcohol level that the yeast cannot tolerate.

OK thanks for the assist.

 

[Wine Newbie]

Adding sorbate and metabisulfite now won't work, as those will not stop an active fermentation. You have an active fermentation, due to the backsweetening sugar you added.

Wait until fermentation is done. Sure, you'll have higher alcohol content than you planned, due to the added sugar. But fermentation needs to be complete.

Dissolve the sorbate and metabisulfite in some boiling water and pour it into a secondary vessel. Rack your wine into the new vessel and let it sit a couple days. Then add the backsweetening sugar.

Great! Thanks for all the information.

 

[Wine Newbie]

Yes. But may be better not to wait, till bubbles from fermentation of sweetening sugar stops. As wine should already have reached the correct strength, (when the initial fermentation ended).

It's mostly the Potassium Sorbate, that stops the yeast.
But it's the enzymes, created by the yeast, that convert sugar to ethanol and CO2.
When yeast activity ends, there will still be residual enzymes. These will ferment some of the 'final' sweeting sugar, so you might still get some more bubbles (and need more sugar than you'd expect).

question....a few have said the sorbate won't stop an active fermentation and the only way to proceed is to allow the full second cycle of fermentation to complete which seems to be on about the fifth day and bubbles have not slowed. At this point I would prefer to stop fermentation altogether if possible

 

[Wine Newbie]

Great! Thanks for all the information.

Adding sorbate and metabisulfite now won't work, as those will not stop an active fermentation. You have an active fermentation, due to the backsweetening sugar you added.

Wait until fermentation is done. Sure, you'll have higher alcohol content than you planned, due to the added sugar. But fermentation needs to be complete.

Dissolve the sorbate and metabisulfite in some boiling water and pour it into a secondary vessel. Rack your wine into the new vessel and let it sit a couple days. Then add the backsweetening sugar.

well i am on about the fifth day of this second fermentation and the bubbles don't seem to be slowing. Is there a product/way to stop the second fermentation completely? And then I would add the metabisulfate and sorbate?

 

[MaxStout]

Short of pasteurizing it, can't think of a way to stop it. Be patient, let the fermentation run its course. Then stabilize with sorbate and metabisulfite and back-sweeten.

 

[Wine Newbie]

Short of pasteurizing it, can't think of a way to stop it. Be patient, let the fermentation run its course. Then stabilize with sorbate and metabisulfite and back-sweeten.

OK will do. I sampled a bit of it and it tastes pretty strong and fizzy but I guess that will go away once the fermentation is done. I am patient so no problem waiting till the bubbles stop and then stabilize with the sorbate and metabisulfate before back sweetening. Thanks.

 

[Raptor99]

It may keep putting out bubbles for a while after fermentation is finished, because the wine is still releasing CO2. The best way to tell if fermentation is finished is to take hydrometer readings. If it is below 1.000 and unchanged for several days, it is probably finished.

I ususually bulk age in carboys for several months before I even think about stabilizing and back sweetening.

 

[Wine Newbie]

It may keep putting out bubbles for a while after fermentation is finished, because the wine is still releasing CO2. The best way to tell if fermentation is finished is to take hydrometer readings. If it is below 1.000 and unchanged for several days, it is probably finished.

I ususually bulk age in carboys for several months before I even think about stabilizing and back sweetening.

so when you say you bulk age for several months before stabilizing and back sweetening.....do you leave the bubble airlock on the entire time to allow for CO2 release? what about chance of spoiling and/or organism growth without stabilizing for that amount of time?

 

[mac_1103]

do you leave the bubble airlock on the entire time to allow for CO2 release? what about chance of spoiling and/or organism growth without stabilizing for that amount of time?

Anything that is going to spoil your wine needs oxygen. If the carboy is filled to the neck and tightly capped with an airlock that is not allowed to dry out, then your wine should not spoil during aging.

 

[Maylar]

Anything that is going to spoil your wine needs oxygen. If the carboy is filled to the neck and tightly capped with an airlock that is not allowed to dry out, then your wine should not spoil during aging.

Actually, airlocks are permeable. For long term I always use a tight fitting cap of some kind. Of course fermentation has to be completely finished.

 

[Raptor99]

I have bulk aged under airlock for over a year without a problem. The two main dangers to wine are 1) spoilage organisms, and 2) oxidation. You can prevent both by:
* carboy filled up to the neck, with only an inch or two of space below the airlock
* Treat with Kmeta
* Keep the airlock filled--don't let it dry out

Most spoilage organisms require oxygen, so this will stop them too. In addition, wine has alcohol plus a pH below 4.0. That will protect it as well.

 

[bernardsmith]

No one has suggested that you use your airlock to monitor the progress of this "second" or more accurately speaking, this re-fermentation. You don't tell us what the starting gravity was, or the gravity when you added more sugar. those data would be helpful, but also important would be to know - a) what the specific gravity is today, and what it is, in say three or four days. All other things being equal, your gravity should be heading towards 1.000 or lower, and it should be rock solid stable for at least two readings at 1.000 or below for you to KNOW that fermentation has ended, even if the wine was in fact degassing - and not producing more CO2.