Therminator or equivalent

[passedpawn]

From my understanding speaking to the Dudadiesel people, the faster the chill water the better. It takes the heat up and on outa dere. The wort should be slow enough to get the desired exit temp, so slow enough to transmit as much heat as needed before exiting.

One thing I don't see many people recommending (hardly):
If the showdown is plate chiller vs. jamil-o-pool IC, then why not a Jamil-o-plate. Why not recirculate the output of the plate chiller back into the kettle. I hear a 'flaw' of the plate chiller is that the majority of the wort stays at boiling temp too long. Problem solved.

I guess it has something to do with hop blockage, but if you are confident in your screening, then why not. Seems like even better than going straight into the fermenter since you'll leave all the trub/break behind... which seems to be the other argument against plate chillers.

EDIT: And you can just use a hose clamp on your line to slow things down. I would hate to have to take apart a ball valve every time I brew just for that purpose. It's the reason I bought a butterfly valve for my boil kettle.

I recirc. The only time I don't have to is during about 3 months in the winter when my pool water (chilling water) gets below about 60, then I can go straight to fermenter.

Recircing with the plate chiller works fine with a Lil Sparky hop bag. I've increased my hops by 10% to account for loss of utilization. Don't know if that was necessary, but I got spooked and really prefer my beers to err on the side of bitterness. I've never had my therminator clog or even slow down.

 

[Catt22]

If you necessitate a strong whirlpool. I do not, I just want to recirculate. My drain is at the bottom center, so a strong whirlpool is not so beneficial.

The slower the wort flows through the chiller the closer to chill water temp it will get. I'm sure there is a point at which the slower flow doesn't chill enough wort in recirculation that it would work in the opposite direction re: chilling efficiency.

I want a high flow rate primarily to speed the chilling. Faster is better on my system, but I'm pumping in a loop back to the BK. I get a fairly strong whirlpool going, but it's only incidental to mixing the wort with the return flow. I am not much concerned about creating a trub pile with the whirlpool as my FB holds back the majority of hop debris and break material.

I disagree with your claim that a slow wort flow through a chiller is the better way to go when recirculating for the chill. The wort temp may not drop as much with each pass through the chiller, but you will be cooling the entire wort volume more quickly with a faster circulation rate and IMO, that's the whole point of doing the recirculation thing.

 

[Catt22]

Recircing with the plate chiller works fine with a Lil Sparky hop bag. I've increased my hops by 10% to account for loss of utilization. Don't know if that was necessary, but I got spooked and really prefer my beers to err on the side of bitterness. I've never had my therminator clog or even slow down.

It's been my experience with the paint strainer contraption that the major loss in hop utilization happens with the late addition hops and the problem gets worse as more hops are added. What I think is happening is that typically only an ounce or two of bittering hops are used at the git go and the flow through that bag is fairly good and all is well. As more hops are added, they begin to coat the inside of the bag which inhibits circulation through the bag and the utilization falls off. This is the reason that I have abandoned the paint strainer bag setup in favor of a false bottom in my BK.

 

[Simphoto02]

This is the reason that I have abandoned the paint strainer bag setup in favor of a false bottom in my BK.

A false bottom of what type of material and construction? A typicle falsebottom like the perforated SS mesh I use in my MLT is too large to stop virtually ANY hop gunk. WHat is your BK false bottom made of, Pics?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

I implemented a grant/hop back between my chiller and kettle. this reduces the chances of breaking siphon from the pump draw and allows me to load the grant with rice hulls for a trub filter prior to passing through my Therminator.

I still recirculate to drive the kettle temp down and to filter the cold break through the grant also.

 

[Catt22]

A false bottom of what type of material and construction? A typicle falsebottom like the perforated SS mesh I use in my MLT is too large to stop virtually ANY hop gunk. WHat is your BK false bottom made of, Pics?

Here ya go:

I think the holes are the typical size used in most FB's.

 

[Simphoto02]

Here ya go:

I think the holes are the typical size used in most FB's.

I can see that you are part of the lucky few who get to use whole leaf hops. I have to rely on pellets too many times from my local shop. I suspected that.

Thanks for the pics.

 

[SankePankey]

I disagree with your claim that a slow wort flow through a chiller is the better way to go when recirculating for the chill. The wort temp may not drop as much with each pass through the chiller, but you will be cooling the entire wort volume more quickly with a faster circulation rate and IMO, that's the whole point of doing the recirculation thing.

Dudadiesel's claim, not mine. I don't own a plate chiller but am trying to determine if it's the way I want to go since I'm unhappy with my IC performance so far.

I think what the guy was saying was if you weren't recirculating, you would have to slow down the wort to attempt to get it to pitching temp in one pass. Asking them to calculate chilling time with a recirculation for my volume to determine the right size chiller for (say) a 10 minute chill prompted sighs and irritation. Guess I'll just have to go with one and check it out.

 

[Simphoto02]

Dudadiesel's claim, not mine. I don't own a plate chiller but am trying to determine if it's the way I want to go since I'm unhappy with my IC performance so far.

I think what the guy was saying was if you weren't recirculating, you would have to slow down the wort to attempt to get it to pitching temp in one pass. Asking them to calculate chilling time with a recirculation for my volume to determine the right size chiller for (say) a 10 minute chill prompted sighs and irritation. Guess I'll just have to go with one and check it out.

BINGO!!!!

All of the statements concerning slowing the wort or the water down or speeding it up and all correct. IF you Recirculate then the speed at which your run the wort/water is really irrelevant. IF you cool straight to the fermentor, it makes a HUGE difference as to how fast the wort/water runs.

I go straight to the fermentor from the BK so I throttle back both to get the most heat removal capacity out of the cooling water for it's ONLY contact with the heat exchanger as the wort passes through on it's way to the fermentor.

 

[jturie]

Dumb question here....what is the "backwash" process? Is it just hooking up a water source to the "wort out" location and blowing water back through the plate chiller?

 

[Catt22]

I think what the guy was saying was if you weren't recirculating, you would have to slow down the wort to attempt to get it to pitching temp in one pass. Asking them to calculate chilling time with a recirculation for my volume to determine the right size chiller for (say) a 10 minute chill prompted sighs and irritation. Guess I'll just have to go with one and check it out.

Now that makes some sense. I would go with the largest plate chiller you can afford, within reason of course and provided that the cost is not too much to bear. More surface area must equate to faster cooling.

 

[Catt22]

IF you Recirculate then the speed at which your run the wort/water is really irrelevant.

I strongly disagree with that statement. The flow rate for both the wort and the cooling water will have a huge influence on the cooling rate when circulating back to the BK. How could it not? All you need to do is push that theory to the extreme and it should become obvious. A trickle of cooling water and/or wort is going to take forever to cool. Reversing that with a fast flow for both will result in much faster cooling.

 

[SankePankey]

What they were telling me is that the LONGER the chiller the faster and more efficient it is. They were trying to get me to go for the Medium 20 plate in stead of the Small 30 plate. They said the performance increase with more plates is not as wide as performance increase with length (this is starting to sound like an Extenze commercial). I want the shorter one cause it fits better in a certain spot on the rig and it comes in 1/2" MPT.

BUT, the shorter ones are better for higher flow rates according to them.

What does this all mean for recirculating. Enquiring minds want to know.

They couldn't give me an estimate for recirculating 15 gal volume unfortunately.

 

[Catt22]

I can see that you are part of the lucky few who get to use whole leaf hops. I have to rely on pellets too many times from my local shop. I suspected that.

Thanks for the pics.

Nope. Those are 100% pellet hops caked on the FB. Not a whole hop in the bunch.

 

[Catt22]

What they were telling me is that the LONGER the chiller the faster and more efficient it is. They were trying to get me to go for the Medium 20 plate in stead of the Small 30 plate. They said the performance increase with more plates is not as wide as performance increase with length (this is starting to sound like an Extenze commercial). I want the shorter one cause it fits better in a certain spot on the rig and it comes in 1/2" MPT.

BUT, the shorter ones are better for higher flow rates according to them.

What does this all mean for recirculating. Enquiring minds want to know.

They couldn't give me an estimate for recirculating 15 gal volume unfortunately.

I would think that the important specification would be the total plate surface area if comparing them for performance. They should be able to furnish that information for you or if you know the chiller dimensions you could calc it yourself.