The "new" math.

[smthgfshy]

just finished brewing my 3rd batch of beer. and once again I overshot my original gravity. I'm not asking the normal beginners, "now what", question, but rather,

"how do I keep doing this"??

I'm using hopville's recipe calculator. I was trying to clone Levitation. Here's what I used:

% LB OZ Malt or Fermentable ppg °L
57% 4 12 Alexander's Pale Extract LME 32 4
27% 2 4 British Two-row Pale 37 1
9% 0 12 British Crystal 70-80L 33 75
6% 0 8 American Crystal 120L 33 120
1% 0 1 Black Patent Malt 27 550

I steeped my grains for 45min in 1.5 gal @ 150 in two grain bags. Sparged with 1.5 gal water. Added 4 quarts water and 2/3 of my extract, brought to a boil, and boiled for 55 min. Total volume at start was 4 gal. Added the rest of the extract, brought to a boil for 5 min, let rest for 10 min to let flameout hops work and cooled to 90 degrees in 15 min. courtesy of the -5 temp and 4ft snowbank. Total vol. post boil was 3.75 gal. Added 1.75 gal cold water to primary, added wort for a total vol of 5.5 gallons. Aerated for 10 min, pitched yeast at 75F, shook it up one last time. Sample was drawn off, cooled to 60F and measured at 1.051. It was supposed to be 1.043. I assumed an efficiency of 70%, a batch size of 5.5, and a boil vol. of 4gal.

Why am I so far off?? What am I doing wrong? I shoulda taken calculus!!

ps....I've kinda thrown out the sparge water vol. and boil water vol., just because I know the more water you sparge with the better the efficiency and the more you boil the better hop utilization you get. I'm also trying to reduce the amount of LME by subbing some base malt. Could these factors be playing a role?

Thanks!!

 

[Smokeater233]

Erm, perhaps I missed something, but it appears your mash is simply more efficient than what you are forecasting with your grain bill and associated calculations. Adjust your assumed efficiency and you should be good to go.

 

[FensterBos]

Umm...I entered your recipe into BeerCalculus and it gives me an estimated OG of 1.049 (range 44 to 51).
I am guessing that your read your recipe wrong or something because you nailed the estimate by BeerCalculus.
Did you specifically want a lower OG beer or were you trying to hit the mark estimated by BeerCaculus?

 

[frazier]

The first (and only) time I tried BIAB technology with a partial mash, I got 80% efficiency, overshot my intended OG, and had to deal with an awesomely wonderful beer afterwards. Then I built my mash cooler and went all-grain, so I never repeated the experiment. As for an explanation, I have my theories but they are insufficiently supported by experience.

Levitation is a great beer, you ought to check out Yooper's Hopped-Up Amber which is a bit bigger, very similar, quite awesome.

 

[smthgfshy]

I don't think I made a mistake. I just copied and pasted. It gives me a range of 1039-1045. Even cranking up the efficiency to 90% only gives an OG of 1048. The only bit of confusion could be that in beercalc. the closest option is 'alexanders pale extract' and I'm using 'alexanders pale Liquid Malt Extract'. I assume these are the same thing.

 

[camus]

Try taking a hydrometer reading before adding the top off water then just use

( Post Boil Volume x Gravity Points ) / Final Volume = OG

You could try taking another after mixing but I think that is where I think you may be having issues.

Oh and if you haven't already calibrate your hydrometer.

 

[Toasted678]

Bo Burnham - New Math

 

[terrapinj]

since you are topping off with cold water you prob aren't getting an accurate OG reading

its apparently very tough to mix wort with water to get an accurate reading

 

[SpottedDogBrewing]

I believe you should ship entire batch to me for further investigation

Sent from my iPhone using HB Talk

 

[Pivovar_Koucky]

90%+ efficiency is entirely possible. It has a lot to do with your water, you may just be lucky.

Also, I may be wrong but I think that 32 ppg is a bit on the low side for LME. I thought it was more like 36.

since you are topping off with cold water you prob aren't getting an accurate OG reading

its apparently very tough to mix wort with water to get an accurate reading

I think that gives a low reading because the diluted water sits on top and that's were the samples are drawn from.

 

[ajf]

You may have a slight error caused by slightly inaccurate volume measurements.
You may also have some errors caused by inadequate mixing.
If you don't know what your efficiency is (or your efficiency varies), you would also get some slight errors caused by the grains
But I think the main cause of the problem is the extract yield of 32 pppg in the calculator. I think this should be closer to 37 pppg (which is typical for LME)
Adjust the yield, and you get 1.048 which is pretty close to 1.051

-a.

 

[smthgfshy]

I actually took a hydrometer reading before mixing with cold water. it was 1071.

the reason I want to know what's going on is the last batch had an 11pt higher reading as well. (I hadn't made a starter based on my calculated OG, so when my measured OG came back higher than the recommended level for my yeast w/o a starter, I got worried, and now I'm paying for it. My FG was 10pts higher than target.)

If this becomes a common occurrence, then great, I know how to plan, but right now I feel like I'm shooting in the dark.

Next up........Springtime in Amarillo.

Thanks!!

 

[Wyrmwood]

...I steeped my grains for 45min in 1.5 gal @ 150 ...Why am I so far off?? ...

Easy Because that's not "steeping". 45 min at 150F is essentially mashing. I've never used that calculator, but with Brewtarget, if you assume all the grains are steeped, you get an OG of 1.046, but if you actually convert the starches using a "mash", you get 1.053. I think these numbers are simply demonstrating the difference between steeping and a "mini-mash". By holding the temp at 150F for 45 min, rather than sticking the grains in 170F water and letting it cool for 10-20 minutes (a typical steep) you are getting "mash" efficiency.

This is interesting as I recently picked up a candy thermometer and was going to try and "mash" the 1lb of grains I have in my extract brew on deck. According to Brewtarget, the difference should be about .006 gravity or about .6% ABV. After seeing your results, I'm confident a "mini-mash" will improve efficiency, even for a small amount of specialty grains.

 

[JLem]

Easy Because that's not "steeping". 45 min at 150F is essentially mashing. I've never used that calculator, but with Brewtarget, if you assume all the grains are steeped, you get an OG of 1.046, but if you actually convert the starches using a "mash", you get 1.053. I think these numbers are simply demonstrating the difference between steeping and a "mini-mash". By holding the temp at 150F for 45 min, rather than sticking the grains in 170F water and letting it cool for 10-20 minutes (a typical steep) you are getting "mash" efficiency.

This is interesting as I recently picked up a candy thermometer and was going to try and "mash" the 1lb of grains I have in my extract brew on deck. According to Brewtarget, the difference should be about .006 gravity or about .6% ABV. After seeing your results, I'm confident a "mini-mash" will improve efficiency, even for a small amount of specialty grains.

+1

When I plug your recipe into Beer Smith as a partial mash I get an estimated OG of 1.052

 

[smthgfshy]

That's fascinating!!

Apparently Brewtarget and Beer Smith use the new math!!

My strike water was at 162ish when I added my grains. After 30 min it was down to 144 with occasional stirring. I added some heat to bring it to 152 for the last 15min. My 6qts of sparge water was at 170.

I'll check into using those two programs instead.....thanks!!

 

[Wyrmwood]

That's fascinating!!

Apparently Brewtarget and Beer Smith use the new math!!

My strike water was at 162ish when I added my grains. After 30 min it was down to 144 with occasional stirring. I added some heat to bring it to 152 for the last 15min. My 6qts of sparge water was at 170.

I'll check into using those two programs instead.....thanks!!

It's not new math... it's mashing versus steeping. The programs simply use the correct math for the method used.

 

[dougdecinces]

Also, I may be wrong but I think that 32 ppg is a bit on the low side for LME. I thought it was more like 36.

According to every source I've read, that's the correct amount.

 

[mr_bell]

According to every source I've read, that's the correct amount.

BYO's recipe standardization (ususally p. 2) list LME as 1.033 to 1.037; I usually figure 35 ppg.

 

[smthgfshy]

It's not new math... it's mashing versus steeping. The programs simply use the correct math for the method used.

Exactly.....new math.......I'm new to mini-mashing and the proper formulation!!

"correct" AND "new"

Ok, so my levitation isn't going to be 4.4%, so I'll have to be careful and only have 3/4 of my 1L bottles....hmmmm...what to do with the rest...???