THE MAIN EVENT: All Grain vs Extract

[SpecialEd]

Ok so I am an extract brewer (7 batches so far) and some have been good, some not so good, but overall an excellent hobby.
So the big question,which makes better beer All grain or extract. I know you have more control in all grain,but other than that are there any major advantages to spengind an entire day doing an all grain batch. Is it less expensive?

 

[the_bird]

Where's the partial mash option?

Where's Ralph Nader?

 

[SpecialEd]

Well what is a partial mash, I steep specialty grains in all my brews.

 

[Truble]

RALPH RALPH RALPH RALPH!!!!!


Since they were not radio butttons, I checked em all. Just did my 1st AG Friday night. I have had great luck so far in my brew career w/extract and mini mash. I will post back in ~6 weeks when my AG batch is done.

Not for nothing, but I am drinking a Magic hat clone that came out awesome!

 

[Orpheus]

Well what is a partial mash, I steep specialty grains in all my brews.

It took me forever to figure this out too, but partial mash is not steeping, but actually employing the same techniques for all grain brewing, but on a smaller scale.

You actually mash smaller amounts of grain in order to get starch conversion. PM brewers also use extracts in combination with the mashing.

 

[G. Cretin]

It's all brewing and personal preferance. I AG because I like to spend all day brewing. But the award winnig beers at Comps. tend to be Extract I don't compete I make beer for family and friends. Cheers

 

[mbarto]

I would say that per unit of work, extract easily makes the better beer. All grain is a ton of fun, but a lot more to do and plenty of places to do something wrong (or accitentally do something just right!). I like making a mess of the kitchen, though, so I always go AG.

 

[SpecialEd]

Well I only have a 5 gal brew pot, can you do partial mash in that? Does partial mash make a big difference?

 

[Ivan Lendl]

Extract is more expensive. I figure about 20 bucks for an all-grain batch and about 35 for extract. Ive done a lot of partial mashes where id mash 50 percent of the fermentables (5-7 lbs grain+3 lbs dme) and those beers were indistinguishable from all grain.

Its not a question of better or worse just preference, time investment etc. The end result is the same=BEER.

 

[SpecialEd]

cool, anyone know a good place to read up on partial mash?

 

[rdwj]

It's not the extract or grain that makes beer good, it's the brewer. Both methods can make very bad and very good beer

 

[disaffected]

Ok so I am an extract brewer (7 batches so far) and some have been good, some not so good, but overall an excellent hobby.
So the big question,which makes better beer All grain or extract. I know you have more control in all grain,but other than that are there any major advantages to spengind an entire day doing an all grain batch. Is it less expensive?

Define "better".

 

[Baron von BeeGee]

Extract is more expensive. I figure about 20 bucks for an all-grain batch and about 35 for extract. Ive done a lot of partial mashes where id mash 50 percent of the fermentables (5-7 lbs grain+3 lbs dme) and those beers were indistinguishable from all grain.

Its not a question of better or worse just preference, time investment etc. The end result is the same=BEER.

Nothing I can add to this.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Extract is more expensive. I figure about 20 bucks for an all-grain batch and about 35 for extract. Ive done a lot of partial mashes where id mash 50 percent of the fermentables (5-7 lbs grain+3 lbs dme) and those beers were indistinguishable from all grain.

Its not a question of better or worse just preference, time investment etc. The end result is the same=BEER.

Amen to that. Cept I will add that with AG can be even less than $20 a batch with bulk grains, yeast harvesting, etc. Even so it really doesn't matter. Brew on, man, however you want.

 

[Monk]

To me, it doesn't matter "which makes better beer", cuz I know my all-grain batch sucked. Haha. I have more DME to use up, so I'll continue with that, and keep on experimenting w/ all grain. But for the time being, extract + grains is the way for me to drink tasty beer.

monk

 

[Yuri_Rage]

I voted for all three...and I would've picked Ralph. I guess I'm an extract brewer since I'm about to do my first AG as soon as I get the pieces put together. I've sat in on a few AG brews, and I think I'll really enjoy it. The bottom line, though, is that I enjoy craft beer and the science/art behind it. It doesn't really matter much which avenue you take if the end result is good beer.

 

[boo boo]

It's not the extract or grain that makes beer good, it's the brewer. Both methods can make very bad and very good beer

I'll drink to that.... Well said.

 

[AleJoe]

mini masher here

 

[chillHayze]

Nader's absense from this poll makes Baby Jesus cry.

 

[Grimsawyer]

OK, here's a question. The same brewer with 2 recepies. One is AG, one is extract. This brewer has great sanitation practices and good methods. This brewer makes the extract version and the AG version of the SAME beer. Which one will taste better assuming the OG/FG/SRM/IBU's and ABV are all the same.

 

[boo boo]

Because I AG I'll say AG, but the truth is that if all the ingredients were fresh, then you shouldn't be able to taste any difference.

 

[Carne de Perro]

cool, anyone know a good place to read up on partial mash?

Look for this month's issue of BYO. They have an article on how to do a partial mash w/ a 2 gallon cooler. In addition they've got articles on how to convert a 10gal cooler for infusion mashing and a huge list of extracts. All in all a VERY good issue techniques wise. (IMHO) I've tried partial mash exactly twice: the first (brown stout) is aging until December and the second is on D -5days to bottle conditioning completion. I'm looking forward to the results.

 

[Biermann]

I go with AG because I do AG, although my old extract batches were great.

AG is still my favorite--it's a lot of fun to use lots of cool (and sometimes expensive) brew toys.

 

[SpecialEd]

So does a partial mash help flavor??? I now steep specialty grains every batch and I think it makes ahuge difference. I also heard all grain gives you more control....ie. you can actually make the beer you are aiming for?


PS oh gadgets are great, just got a kegging system, mmmmmmm.....beeer

 

[chillHayze]

So does a partial mash help flavor??? I now steep specialty grains every batch and I think it makes ahuge difference. I also heard all grain gives you more control....ie. you can actually make the beer you are aiming for?


PS oh gadgets are great, just got a kegging system, mmmmmmm.....beeer

It gives you more control over the body of the beer, and makes *individual* batches a few bucks cheaper. Equipment cost is another story... But heck, it's a hobby! That's money not spent on greens fees.

Oh, and did I mention it's more FUN!

 

[Evan!]

So does a partial mash help flavor??? I now steep specialty grains every batch and I think it makes ahuge difference. I also heard all grain gives you more control....ie. you can actually make the beer you are aiming for?


PS oh gadgets are great, just got a kegging system, mmmmmmm.....beeer

Since you can use more specialty grains, not just for steeping, but for their actual sugars...in my opinion, it definitely does help the flavor. Since I moved from extract-steeping to PM, my brews have gotten much better.

Here's a quick and dirty Partial Mash guide:

1. Put 2-3 quarts of water in your pot, bring to 150 degrees F.
2. Add grains...can be as much as 3 lbs, but make sure to add more water if it looks dry.
3. The temp should fall to 130F. Add heat if necessary, and maintian 129-135F for 30 minutes.
4. Add 3 quarts boiling water to bring the heat up to 155F. Add heat or cold water as necessary to get to this temp. Hold between 149-155F for 45 mins.
5. Increase heat to bring temp to 158, hold for 10-20 mins to finish starch conversion.
6. Perform an iodine test to ensure starch conversions: get iodine tincture from the drug store, etc., take a tablespoon of the wort and pour into a shallow white bowl. Add a few drops of iodine. If the iodine drops change color to black or purple, it's not done...keep it at 158F for longer. If the drops do not change color, conversion is done. Proceed!
7. Raise temp to 167F, then use a large-holed strainer to sparge, using 170F water, into another large container.
8. In the end, wash out your kettle, and return the sparged wort to the kettle. Proceed as you would with an extract batch.

Hope that helps. I'm sure there are more detailed explanations on the web. Or follow one of Papazian's Complete Joy recipes.

Yes, gadgets are lotsa fun. I just got an 8-gallon brew kettle and an aeration kit. My yeasties are very appreciative if the aeration. A yeastie with a high metabolic rate is a happy yeastie.

 

[Beeratier]

Been reading this thread and I just gotta chime in on the topic.

I have to say I totally disagree with the people who say that Extract ("if the ingredients are fresh") can be just as good as All-Grain.

Imagine going to a Two Michelin Star Restaurant and going back to the kitchen and finding that all of the meat is in plastic, the vegetables are from cans and the bread is made from a quick mix box. So you ask the head chef, "Whats going on here? Where is the fresh food?", and he says "Not to worry!, everything we cook with here is fresh. Yes, it may come from a can or box but we have been guaranteed by our supplier that nothing is more than 1 month old."

This picture may seem rediculous but its no different than people saying malt extract can make as good a beer as all-grain.

Malt Extract beer is like eating from a can while All-Grain is eating food that was made from scratch.

Extract beer can never, ever be as fresh as an All-Grain beer. Fresh ingredients are key to anything we consume. Nobody argues that pellet hops are just as good as whole fresh hops. Yet people have this idea that a malt syrup from a can or bag can be just as good as making your own fresh extract and brewing with it right then and there.

Randy Mosher states in his book Radical Brewing:

"Malt extract has been largely stripped of aroma, which is why a pound of crystal malt or a mini-mash makes such a dramatic improvement."

Nuff said.

 

[Brewing Clamper]

Look for this month's issue of BYO. They have an article on how to do a partial mash w/ a 2 gallon cooler. In addition they've got articles on how to convert a 10gal cooler for infusion mashing and a huge list of extracts. All in all a VERY good issue techniques wise. (IMHO) I've tried partial mash exactly twice: the first (brown stout) is aging until December and the second is on D -5days to bottle conditioning completion. I'm looking forward to the results.

If you don't want to buy the magazine, get it from the website. It's a good article and this is what I used in my first partial mash a couple of weeks ago.

 

[Evan!]

Been reading this thread and I just gotta chime in on the topic.

I have to say I totally disagree with the people who say that Extract ("if the ingredients are fresh") can be just as good as All-Grain.

Imagine going to a Two Michelin Star Restaurant and going back to the kitchen and finding that all of the meat is in plastic, the vegetables are from cans and the bread is made from a quick mix box. So you ask the head chef, "Whats going on here? Where is the fresh food?", and he says "Not to worry!, everything we cook with here is fresh. Yes, it may come from a can or box but we have been guaranteed by our supplier that nothing is more than 1 month old."

This picture may seem rediculous but its no different than people saying malt extract can make as good a beer as all-grain.

Malt Extract beer is like eating from a can while All-Grain is eating food that was made from scratch.

Extract beer can never, ever be as fresh as an All-Grain beer. Fresh ingredients are key to anything we consume. Nobody argues that pellet hops are just as good as whole fresh hops. Yet people have this idea that a malt syrup from a can or bag can be just as good as making your own fresh extract and brewing with it right then and there.

Randy Mosher states in his book Radical Brewing:

"Malt extract has been largely stripped of aroma, which is why a pound of crystal malt or a mini-mash makes such a dramatic improvement."

Nuff said.

Of course extract is stripped of much of its aroma. But most, if not all, the "extract" recipes I've seen call for steeping whole grains. I don't think anyone is really advocating just dumping extract syrup into some water, adding hops and yeast, and calling it a day...I think you're arguing with a phantom, Beeratier.

 

[Beeratier]

Of course extract is stripped of much of its aroma. But most, if not all, the "extract" recipes I've seen call for steeping whole grains. I don't think anyone is really advocating just dumping extract syrup into some water, adding hops and yeast, and calling it a day...I think you're arguing with a phantom, Beeratier.

You could be right (about my arguing with a phantom).

Steeping whole grains can do a lot for an extract beer and I'm sure thats what most people are doing when brewing with extract. And thankgoodness for extract because without it a lot of people who want to brew wouldn't be able to.

I just want to see more people brew all-grain, thats all. I think its one of the best things you can do to stick it to "The Man", to buck the system and to get in touch with your roots. Its taking beer making to that next level, where you are truly creating something. Its where you control all aspects of what is being spawned from hops and grain. I just see using ready-made extract as one of those things that was started because of our busy lives that just get busier. To brew all-grain is to go back in time when we were not all in such a mad rush or a rat race, whatever you want to call it. When the rhythms of life were dictated by the seasons and by the barley and wheat fields. Brewing all-grain is totally contradictory in a society and culture where its all about instant this and that.

So if there is anyway you can brew all-grain, do it. Its one of the most satisfying things you will ever accomplish.