The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

[Talgrath]

I like your line-up, but a lot of people seem to be indicating Bruce will go with a staid 4-4-2. I wouldn't be shocked if Nagbe doesn't start in that formation, with Morris and Jozy up top; some folks even think Dempsey could start. I have to say, this is a game to be nervous about though. The USMNT did not look good at all in those friendlies and a loss means the USMNT could miss the World Cup for the first time in decades. If the USMNT get anything less than 4 points out of these two games, then serious questions should be asked of Bruce Arena and Sunil Gulati for bringing him in.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

I also hope between games Arena calls in Chandler.

We should get 6 points, this is the easy leg for us. IMO 4 points is a failure, 3 or less is catastrophic and we'll be reeling like Mexico 4 years ago.

 

[Talgrath]

Halfway to 6 points, though I have to say that I think folks need to pump the breaks a bit on the hype train for both Arena and Pulisic. Panama in Panama is a different beast by a long shot than Honduras in the US; Panama has excellent defense and a good counter-attack, I expect to see them try to catch the US on the counter.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Halfway to 6 points, though I have to say that I think folks need to pump the breaks a bit on the hype train for both Arena and Pulisic. Panama in Panama is a different beast by a long shot than Honduras in the US; Panama has excellent defense and a good counter-attack, I expect to see them try to catch the US on the counter.

I agree on pumping the brakes on Arena. We should have won the game. Playing at Panama will be a better test. Even then, we should beat them.

People massively overblow the first 2 results. We faced the best team in CONCACAF and honestly we should have drawn Mexico, possession, chances, etc. were all even, Mexico took advantage of 2 lapses. Costa Rica was a really bad loss, and that's why people freaked out, but it was a loss to Costa Rica, which we've done a whole lot of. In fact the last 4 FIFA world cup qualifying trips to Costa Rica were losses, 4-0, 3-1, 3-1, 3-0. Infact when the US has travelled to Costa Rica, they've only gotten one draw, way back in 1985, and they've almost always resulted in conceding multiple goals.

But the hype train on Pulisic is real. US has never had a prospect like him. Granted lots of other countries have prospects like him, but the US has never had that level of prospect, the best the US has been able to conjure is athletically talented but technically/tactically inept players, or players who're solid there, but suck physically.

Pulisic should be the best US player to put on the uniform as long as he stays healthy. He should easily surpass what guys like Reyna did overseas, and while Landycakes was great for club and country, he never left MLS, that is a blemish on his career.

Hopefully the US wins the game easily. I have no ****ing clue what lineup they'll go with. Losing Brooks is huge.

For me you have to put Cameron at CB, which means that not calling in Timmy CHandler is risky. Scary thing is that basically 3 out of 5 of our best players are missing with Johnson, Brooks, and Wood, what probably is our number 1 keeper with Guzan. It's scary. But the upside is that Dempsey, Jozy, and Bradley all looked up to their max abilities. If they can continue to stay there, we will win and pretty comfortably. But I expect a lot of scary moments. To me the best case lineup the USMnt can use is a 3-5-2

GK - Howard
CB - Gonzo
CB - Howard
CB - Ream
RWB - Zusi
CDM - Dax
CM - Bradley
CAM - Pulisic
LWB - Villafana
CF - Dempsey
St - Jozy

So the biggest downside is that talented guys like Kljestan and Nagbe will be left off the starting roster. Could sub in Jones for Dax and push Bradley back too.

The other option is to go something like a 4-3-3

RB - Beasley
CB - Cameron
CB - Zimmerman
LB - Villafana
CM - Jones
CM - Bradley
CM - Nagbe/Kljestan
RW - Dempsey
ST - Jozy
LW - Pulisic

With Dempsey being more of a striker than winger and pulisic being kind of a rover behind them. Neither Beasley or Villafana have experience playing RB, but I feel pretty confident they can handle it even if they struggle offensively I'd rather have their pace to cover counters.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Tickets to Spurs/City in Nashville this summer procured. Should make Wembley this fall as well.

 

[Talgrath]

A draw in Panama for the US is...okay, but if I'm being honest, Panama should have won that game, they looked like the better team. Still, the result keeps the US in qualifying and in striking range of the automatic qualification spots, I'll take it I guess. Pulisic did look really good again though.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

That was a deflating point. We didn't play well enough for 3 and after dominating the game before, that huge of adropoff sucks. Sure we lost 3 guys since that game but reality was we ren't that much worse off aside from John Brooks. I just think the tactics weren't good enough. And maybe chemisty too? Like why was every play to Jozy not to his feet?

That being said, Pulisic was the best player on the field, if one other outfield player played as well as him we would have easily won.

 

[lgilmore]

hoppy? I think you're making the assumption that all the central American teams are the same. No they're not. Panama is a defensive team with quality CBs and the team as a group plays a very physical style. It was a rough game where the ref kept his whistle in his pocket. The US actually played pretty well considering the style of play the game gave them. Hard to be a finesse team when you're constantly getting knocked down.

The US did pretty well actually. They got and gave on par with the Panama side. The only thing was the long throw ins were confusing them. Howard almost saved the Panama goal. If the soccer gods were with us, an inch more, it's a wonderful Howard save.

Pulisic and Nagle give our outside some threats and Pulisic did play well in both games. It is also great to have Dempsey out there because he reads the game so well. Notice how Dempsey positioned himself to finish. Dempsey is good at sitting in the holes and finishing the opportunities.

Anyway glad to see the coaching change and the change away from being the German C team.

 

[Talgrath]

Look, Panama is not a terrible team by CONCACAF standards...but we should be doing better than that. The United States has 80 people for every one Panamanian citizen, hell LA alone equals their population and LA alone brings in more per year than Panama does by GDP; we should be beating the piss out of Panama, every time. Would Klinsmann necessarily win that game? Nah (he tied them in a similar game last WCQs) but we should expect more. And as for your last point, Arena's team wasn't significantly different from the last few line ups Klinsmann put out given the injuries.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

hoppy? I think you're making the assumption that all the central American teams are the same. No they're not. Panama is a defensive team with quality CBs and the team as a group plays a very physical style. It was a rough game where the ref kept his whistle in his pocket. The US actually played pretty well considering the style of play the game gave them. Hard to be a finesse team when you're constantly getting knocked down.

The US did pretty well actually. They got and gave on par with the Panama side. The only thing was the long throw ins were confusing them. Howard almost saved the Panama goal. If the soccer gods were with us, an inch more, it's a wonderful Howard save.

Pulisic and Nagle give our outside some threats and Pulisic did play well in both games. It is also great to have Dempsey out there because he reads the game so well. Notice how Dempsey positioned himself to finish. Dempsey is good at sitting in the holes and finishing the opportunities.

Anyway glad to see the coaching change and the change away from being the German C team.

The US should beat Panama. A draw is a disappointing result. For comparison, it would be like last year in the NFL the Patriots losing to the Jaguars. Sure they're an NFL team, but the Pats are expected to beat a team like the Jaguars comfortably.

Only brightside is at least we didn't draw at home vs. them like Mexico. That was funny.

But we're leagues ahead of them. WE were missing more European palyers than they have, with the majority (2 out of 4) with Senior team callups recently being for Sporting CP's second team. They don't have players who play on teams like Hertha, Dortmund, or Monchengladbach. They have players who play primarily in South/Central American leagues. ANd not Brazil or Argentina and few in Mexico.

Their quality CB's are a guy who is 36 and plied his trade in Mexico at his peak, and a guy who's 31 who spent most of his career in Columbia. 3 of 4 of our CBs played in either the Premier League or Bundesliga.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

ANd forgot to add, the 2 CBs were completely undressed by Pulisic on the goal, which was one of the few times that game that the US played the game intelligently. Instead their goal seemed to be bomb it to Jozy who's not that kind of player, he's the kind who needs build up. If Panama is gonna make it their game plan to foul then make them run ragged and make them foul. USA has the technical prowess to march slowly down the field and make them pay on Set pieces.

 

[Talgrath]

The US should beat Panama. A draw is a disappointing result. For comparison, it would be like last year in the NFL the Patriots losing to the Jaguars. Sure they're an NFL team, but the Pats are expected to beat a team like the Jaguars comfortably.

Only brightside is at least we didn't draw at home vs. them like Mexico. That was funny.

But we're leagues ahead of them. WE were missing more European palyers than they have, with the majority (2 out of 4) with Senior team callups recently being for Sporting CP's second team. They don't have players who play on teams like Hertha, Dortmund, or Monchengladbach. They have players who play primarily in South/Central American leagues. ANd not Brazil or Argentina and few in Mexico.

Their quality CB's are a guy who is 36 and plied his trade in Mexico at his peak, and a guy who's 31 who spent most of his career in Columbia. 3 of 4 of our CBs played in either the Premier League or Bundesliga.

Slight defense of Roman Torres here:he's really good. I mean, he's maybe not top of the heap good, but it's astounding to me that the Sounders got him as cheaply as they did. He's not really fast, but his positioning is usually top-notch and he's amazing on headers, plus he's pretty good on long balls ervice. I think if Torres played for a major soccer power like Brazil or Argentina he would have a big European contract.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

No. Talent speaks for itself and he was playing with guys who got big European contracts. I do think he had visa issues or something as I recall him being tied with some second tier leagues.

But even if he is good(which he is) , he's not Geoff Cameron, John Brooks, Omar Gonzalez, Tim Ream, etc. he would probably not even make the US roster considering we left off guys like Matt Hedges and Birnbaum who're superior MLS defenders.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

ANdy Carroll scored his 50th premier league goal today.

He's had such a weird career.

I remember back in Liverpool fleeced Chelsea in the Fernando Torres ordeal. While Torres has revived his career a bit in Spain, he's still not close to his high flying levels of first Atletico trip and first 3 years in Liverpool, but it was clear he was losing it before Liverpool sold him, his goal scoring stats were down but Chelsea gambled and paid through the nose for him. What did they do with the majority of that money? Splurge on Peter Crouch 2.0. A man with no skill besides heading the ball. Carroll was off to a resoundingly hot start for New Castle with 11 goals in 19 apps and I guess the idea for Liverpool was buy him now before he got too expensive. but those type of signings don't always work, especially with guys who weren't regarded as remarkable talents.

Anyway Carroll then proceeded to never score 11 goals in the premier league again. Plagued by injuries and general mediocrity, he's basically proven himself to be Jozy Altidore, without the national team rises.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Semi important MLS related thing from me. Second leg of CCL is to take place Tues and Wednesday featuring Vancouver hosting Tigres and FC Dallas travelling to Pachuca. FIrst leg had Vancouver losing 2-0 and FC Dallas winning 2-1. So Dallas is basically playing for a draw, I expect them to curl into a shell ready to break out when they get a chance.

Vancouver has a much harder task needing a 2-0 regular time result to just get a chance at extra time. Won't be easy. Handful of USMNT called players who could be featured including Acosta, Hedges, Zimmerman, and Omar.

 

[skraeling]

Vote for the mls stadium in STL takes place today. hoping for a pass on it, but we shall see.

 

[Talgrath]

Semi important MLS related thing from me. Second leg of CCL is to take place Tues and Wednesday featuring Vancouver hosting Tigres and FC Dallas travelling to Pachuca. FIrst leg had Vancouver losing 2-0 and FC Dallas winning 2-1. So Dallas is basically playing for a draw, I expect them to curl into a shell ready to break out when they get a chance.

Vancouver has a much harder task needing a 2-0 regular time result to just get a chance at extra time. Won't be easy. Handful of USMNT called players who could be featured including Acosta, Hedges, Zimmerman, and Omar.

Absolute dagger of a way for Dallas to lose that game, and a screw up by the veteran Figueroa.

 

[robdogj]

The CFC Gaffer had this to say about spuds today:

"We must think Spurs could win all their games and for this reason we need 18 points for the title" ​

I have to agree w/ him. At one time this season I believed that 85 points would get CFC to the promise land - looking more & more that won't be enough - Don Antonio has a vision & IMHO that is the proper one

 

[Zuljin]

Okay. I am not obsessive about tool maintenance. I expect they will get dirty and show signs of use. They are tools. But if you de-rag a scum chopper pump, at least wipe my friken tools down before you put them back in the box.

I come in yesterday and find my tool box out. Fine. People are welcome to use my tools. Then I notice, the handle to the box is greasy. Inside the the box was a friken nightmare! It looked like they dumped a grease concentrator into the box. Balls of ass grease all throughout. They used the tools and just chunked them back in the box filthy. Come the hell on, people!

 

[Qhrumphf]

http://m.goal.com/s/en/news/1862/pr...-expectation-the-difference-between-liverpool

While I'd say since last season (barring bottling the end of it) Spurs have been indeed getting more positive press, this is remarkably on point.

Particularly with the reality of Spurs players (and Poch) always being talked about in the context of their value to whatever bigger club rumored to buy them.

However, historically it's not like that's an unfounded perspective. You know, because Daniel Levy.

 

[robdogj]

how about them gooners

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

http://m.goal.com/s/en/news/1862/pr...-expectation-the-difference-between-liverpool

While I'd say since last season (barring bottling the end of it) Spurs have been indeed getting more positive press, this is remarkably on point.

Particularly with the reality of Spurs players (and Poch) always being talked about in the context of their value to whatever bigger club rumored to buy them.

However, historically it's not like that's an unfounded perspective. You know, because Daniel Levy.

Also TOttenham doesn't make as much money as those clubs. Arsenal is the same way. Only players I can think of Arsenal signing who could play on big teams are Ozil and Sanchez.

That being said, Tottenham has done a great job bringing in kids, and the fans should be proud. But they're not gonna have the ability to keep players from MAdrid, Barcelona, Munich, Paris, Manchester, or London. Those clubs have a ton of money. Call it the Dortmund syndrome. Dortmund is a big club in many regards, but they can't compete with Bayern. ANy of their players who Bayern or another big club wants, they get.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

how about them gooners

THis is what Rob Gronkowski can look forward to becoming

 

[Qhrumphf]

Also TOttenham doesn't make as much money as those clubs. Arsenal is the same way. Only players I can think of Arsenal signing who could play on big teams are Ozil and Sanchez.

That being said, Tottenham has done a great job bringing in kids, and the fans should be proud. But they're not gonna have the ability to keep players from MAdrid, Barcelona, Munich, Paris, Manchester, or London. Those clubs have a ton of money. Call it the Dortmund syndrome. Dortmund is a big club in many regards, but they can't compete with Bayern. ANy of their players who Bayern or another big club wants, they get.

Arsenal is swimming in funds compared to Spurs. Significantly underfunded compared to all our top six rivals.

Arsenal's problem is that they can offer money, but no so much on the glory. Madrid, Barca, Bayern, *choke* Chelsea, offer money AND glory. At least with Liverpool and Man U there's the history even if the clubs today aren't as successful as in the past.

But Spurs are showing hope for the future. And at least the current squad seem happy to believe in it.

But ultimately you're right, don't have the funds to attract the big stars (nor the willingness to pay for it, thanks Levy), and the trophies have to start coming in to get the glory part down.

So while I'd say you're right, that may be changing. Especially with the new stadium in the works.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Of interest to both Spurs fans and USMNT fans.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...rlet-Christian-Pulisic-watched-Tottenham.html

 

[Qhrumphf]

Of course Liverpool is already moving and would surely outspend us on him, but I can dream.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Of course Liverpool is already moving and would surely outspend us on him, but I can dream.

I'd rather have him in spurs than Liverpool While I think Klopp is a genius, Liverpool's management is fickle at best and I"ll be shocked if he's not there after next year.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Arsenal is swimming in funds compared to Spurs. Significantly underfunded compared to all our top six rivals.

Arsenal's problem is that they can offer money, but no so much on the glory. Madrid, Barca, Bayern, *choke* Chelsea, offer money AND glory. At least with Liverpool and Man U there's the history even if the clubs today aren't as successful as in the past.

But Spurs are showing hope for the future. And at least the current squad seem happy to believe in it.

But ultimately you're right, don't have the funds to attract the big stars (nor the willingness to pay for it, thanks Levy), and the trophies have to start coming in to get the glory part down.

So while I'd say you're right, that may be changing. Especially with the new stadium in the works.

Hopefully they do well, competition is good. Don't just want Chelsea and City dominating while Man U figures out life post Fergie.

 

[RustyHorn]

At least with Liverpool and Man U there's the history even if the clubs today aren't as successful as in the past.

I'm not sure how you're defining history here?! They are as successful as those teams in the past and in terms of history, have spent the longest uninterrupted in the top flight. It'll be 100 years in 2019.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I'm not sure how you're defining history here?! They are as successful as those teams in the past and in terms of history, have spent the longest uninterrupted in the top flight. It'll be 100 years in 2019.

Simply put, trophy count. It's not even close. Arsenal has won their share, but nowhere near Liverpool and Man U.

I'm actually not meaning that as a dig at Arsenal. Just that supporters of either cling to it to validate themselves. And that apart from the paycheck (and even then other clubs can match that), that's the draw for players.