The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Does anyone else really wish some of our players would get collusive (is that a word?) on a teams arse and try to get some US players on a bum EPL squad? Like I'd love if Gonzalez and Cameron had time to hone their craft and build chemistry. But it seems like the US players almost always get scattered to the wind unless they play MLS.

 

[Grannyknot]

Does anyone else really wish some of our players would get collusive (is that a word?) on a teams arse and try to get some US players on a bum EPL squad? Like I'd love if Gonzalez and Cameron had time to hone their craft and build chemistry. But it seems like the US players almost always get scattered to the wind unless they play MLS.

Its an intersting point, for sure.
Definately one of the reasons I feel that Spain has dominated for so many years. Most of their players come from Madrid or Barca.

In the case of the US players, I think I would rather them get spread out around Europe. At least it gives them a chance to develop in the most competetive environment possible. The big problem with US players is that they don't hit the peak of their career until their bodies are starting the decline. 28-30 years old is not the time to start playing your best soccer.

Player for player, we are 4 years behind any player brought up in Europe. I blame this on many factors, mainly the poor quality of NCAA soccer programs, but it all falls back on a lack of interest in the sport in this country.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

US has been working on and hopefully ina few years we'll see the results of the young guys coming through. Klinsmann overall is really doing things a lot like he did in Germany. For the Krauts he got rid of many of the old standbys in favor of younger hungrier players and they wound up surprising many at WC 2006, and the changes Klinsmann made on the youth level paid dividends as guys like Thomas Muller, Toni Kroos, Mats Hummels, Manuel Neuer, Mesut Ozil, etc. all became much better players. Now I don't think they US has as fast of a turnaround as Germany because the US isn't a soccer nation, but I think if Klinsmann is given his shot we could see a big turnaround in the next decade or so. There's no excuse for us not to be a world power in soccer. No we'll probably never be Brazil, Italy France, or SPain, but we should be in the top 20 of FIFA rankings all the time. Give some American athletes the opportunity to play soccer and you could see great things. There are thousands of guys who're not quite the elite Athlete that it takes to play Basketball or Football on a professional level, but would arguably be one of the best soccer athletes. If we can get more soccer in offseasons for Basketball and Football (Spring Soccer for starters) that gets kids interested in the idea we can see better athletes hit the game and hopefully better results.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Player for player, we are 4 years behind any player brought up in Europe. I blame this on many factors, mainly the poor quality of NCAA soccer programs, but it all falls back on a lack of interest in the sport in this country.

It's more like 10 years behind. And I say this only because in a lot of countries in Europe, the soccer pyramid includes tiers for highschool, middle school, and grade school, so if potential is seen at an early age a player could essentially be on the fast track to the big boy leagues before they even hit puberty.

All we have is a US youth soccer organization followed by highschool ball and then college, all of which don't get a lot of attention.

However academies are becoming a bigger deal in MLS so we could soon see a big jump in youth talent.

And as far as US players going to Europe... okay, they can have a few but we really need to start growing the usable player pool in the domestic league and make it a league that players will choose over a Euro-league. And a better league also means grabbing young foreign talent, allowing US players a chance to go up against players they would have normally faced over in Europe.


EDIT: and you really can't blame the lack of popularity in this country anymore. MLS is now the third highest attended professional league in the US, just behind MLB (but may still never catch the NFL.)

 

[mrgstiffler]

I don't think Gonzalez is the only problem, there was no leadership in the back line.

Understatement of the century.

EDIT: Woooooo, 1,000 posts!

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

It's more like 10 years behind. And I say this only because in a lot of countries in Europe, the soccer pyramid includes tiers for highschool, middle school, and grade school, so if potential is seen at an early age a player could essentially be on the fast track to the big boy leagues before they even hit puberty.

All we have is a US youth soccer organization followed by highschool ball and then college, all of which don't get a lot of attention.

However academies are becoming a bigger deal in MLS so we could soon see a big jump in youth talent.

And as far as US players going to Europe... okay, they can have a few but we really need to start growing the usable player pool in the domestic league and make it a league that players will choose over a Euro-league. And a better league also means grabbing young foreign talent, allowing US players a chance to go up against players they would have normally faced over in Europe.


EDIT: and you really can't blame the lack of popularity in this country anymore. MLS is now the third highest attended professional league in the US, just behind MLB (but may still never catch the NFL.)

I think that overall the soccer culture is changing what you have to hope for is the current crop of soccer players plays well enough to keep interest up. That the current adults then have their kids play soccer. I played soccer as a kid, of course also growing up in NJ I'm basically in one of the big 3 soccer state. Obviously like all sports California is number 1. But after that I believe NJ is second or 3rd in soccer players in the pros.

Of the guys and gals currently playing on the USMNT and WNT the following are from NJ

Altidore
Agudelo
Bradley
Tobin heath
Howard
Carli Lloyd
Heather O'Reilly
Rampone

And I probably skipped over a few since I'm just skimming, And yes I know that Altidore and Bradley played ball elsewhere, Altidore in Florida and Bradley at a variety of places, basically roving where his dad coached,

But you also have Guiseppe Rossi who played as a kid in NJ, then moved to Parma to play for their youth club. He's the type of guy we have to watch out for losing. Someone born of dual nationality, who can go international and switch. Hopefulyl we don't run into the same issue with Lederman, I don't believe it will be an issue, he's already capped with u-14 hopefully he caps an official match and becomes cap tied just in case spain tries to naturalize him.

But the lack of a development system like they have in England, Spain, etc. is the real problem. We have youth soccer, but the MLS clubs need to spend their money developing youth academies for kids.

 

[Grannyknot]

It's more like 10 years behind. And I say this only because in a lot of countries in Europe, the soccer pyramid includes tiers for highschool, middle school, and grade school, so if potential is seen at an early age a player could essentially be on the fast track to the big boy leagues before they even hit puberty.

All we have is a US youth soccer organization followed by highschool ball and then college, all of which don't get a lot of attention.

However academies are becoming a bigger deal in MLS so we could soon see a big jump in youth talent.

And as far as US players going to Europe... okay, they can have a few but we really need to start growing the usable player pool in the domestic league and make it a league that players will choose over a Euro-league. And a better league also means grabbing young foreign talent, allowing US players a chance to go up against players they would have normally faced over in Europe.


EDIT: and you really can't blame the lack of popularity in this country anymore. MLS is now the third highest attended professional league in the US, just behind MLB (but may still never catch the NFL.)

I was being generous with the 4 years

Reno, in regards to building the MLS to become a respectable league, what are your thoughts on the quality of scouting amongst the teams?

Obviously, scouting in Europe is a waste of time.
I assume the MLS teams do a pretty good job when it comes to scouting Mexican talent, but it seems like we struggle pretty bad when it comes to South America. Seems like we should be able to grab up the rising stars there and be a bridge between South America and Europe.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Our scouts have started venturing out, and the Caribbean and SA have been huge targets as of late. Just look at how many Columbian and Brazilian players we have now.

There also seems to be an upswing in players picked up from the Norse region as well as Africa and eastern Europe / the Baltics. One region that really needs to be tapped more is southeast Asia. There is a ton of talent to be found. Just look at Y.P. Lee, Lee Nguyen(sp?), and the most recent Asian signing, Kobayashi. The Chinese league and the J-League are starting to rise in the ranks of leagues around the world.

 

[ScotBrew]

But the lack of a development system like they have in England, Spain, etc. is the real problem. We have youth soccer, but the MLS clubs need to spend their money developing youth academies for kids.

The Union certainly do. I know this cos I work in it!

Our kids stay with their respective clubs and academies and then come to us for supplemental training once or twice a week. It's a great model cos it gives the players continuity and if their development slows down over a period of time they can stay with their club and then come back in to our setup. Plus it gives kids who have a slow development rate to come in later on.

It's more flexible than the normal setup cos if kids aren't good enough, they just get binned out the setup and then have to go and find a new youth club etc.

**EDIT - YSC Sports in Wayne, PA runs the Union Academy. The facility is used by the first and reserve teams when they need indoor turf space also.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

What? There's an MLS insider on here? Awesome!

 

[ScotBrew]

Haha. I tried to keep my mouth shut cos I don't like talking about my work too often but I felt the need to let people know that the MLS clubs do have youth setups in one fashion or another. Can't possibly comment on how the other clubs do it but the Union's setup does work well.

You'll probably see some 'homegrown' players from their youth setup coming through in around 5 years I reckon.

 

[ThickHead]

Haha. I tried to keep my mouth shut cos I don't like talking about my work too often but I felt the need to let people know that the MLS clubs do have youth setups in one fashion or another. Can't possibly comment on how the other clubs do it but the Union's setup does work well.

You'll probably see some 'homegrown' players from their youth setup coming through in around 5 years I reckon.

An odd questions....but is the Union youth set-up similar to "Academy" type set-ups which also includes schooling, or is that a future concept at this point?

 

[Reno_eNVy]

An odd questions....but is the Union youth set-up similar to "Academy" type set-ups which also includes schooling, or is that a future concept at this point?

Good question, because I know a lot of MLS clubs have true academies.

 

[ScotBrew]

Not any schooling no. And to be honest I don't know if it's in the pipeline or not right now. I haven't been privy to that sort of classified info!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

So are you allowed to give an honest opinion and insight on the Nowak-era?

 

[ScotBrew]

Haha I've only recently started working with them so I couldn't possibly say!

Bear in mind, I don't know of any clubs that operate their own schooling. Even Barcelona don't. The kids stay there but are then bused to top schools in Barcelona and then come back to their academy. A lot of the kids in our Union setup already go to top schools in the area anyway.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Some Academies do their own schooling, apparently.

"Southampton employ six teachers on site. With class sizes as small as five or six, academic results are often better than predicted at their regular schools."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-golden-generation-England.html#axzz2KV8Ct3HY

​

 

[ScotBrew]

That's pretty cool. I honestly didn't know clubs had actually started schooling their own kids within their academy. Even now, it's still relatively new. I know my old pro club in Scotland, Dundee United, have a partnership with a local high school.

Some of the kids train at the school in the morning, missing the first 90mins of lessons and then head off to lessons with the rest of their team/class mates. Other clubs do the same obviously but it's the first time I'd heard a club employing teachers for actual lessons.

Every day is a school day!

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

It's more than cool, the academy was a major factor in Southampton's survival from financial ruin. A few years back they were facing liquidation. The key to finding a new buyer was that we had a new ground. Another major factor though, was the value of the academy. It helped make Saints a viable purchase.
In the future, they hope to be in a position to keep their new players, but in the past few years alone the sales of Bale, Walcott and Oxlade-Chamberlain have more than covered the expenses of the academy.

 

[ScotBrew]

Yeah I read the report. Makes for good reading actually.

I take it, from reading your post, that you're a bit of a Saints fan?

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Yeah I read the report. Makes for good reading actually.

I take it, from reading your post, that you're a bit of a Saints fan?

Yep, Southampton born and bred. I'm kinda glad that we don't get to choose which teams we support. Makes it more fun that way!! You?

I must confess, I've never taken any interest in Scottish football except when Aberdeen were upsetting the apple cart all those years ago, I loved it! .........But if I'd known who Fergie would turn out to be, I'd probably have viewed them differently!

 

[ScotBrew]

Haha yeah. The only 'choice' would be if you have 2 teams in your city and your parents etc have no influence.

I'm a Dundee United supporter myself. English team is Reading. I've worked with a guy who runs their community program for the last 2 summers. Plus Noel Hunt went from Dundee Utd to Reading a few years back. My mate is also the Reading mascot and was the England mascot at the Brazil game!

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Haha yeah. The only 'choice' would be if you have 2 teams in your city and your parents etc have no influence.

*ahem* LA and Chivas

(See also: obvious choice)

 

[ScotBrew]

True. My team's rivals are Dundee FC. Their ground is 120 yards up the road on the other side. I could see their stadium from my old seat!

Not really been able to get into MLS properly yet. There doesn't seem to be any reasoning behind when games are played so I have no idea when they're on. With games back in the UK I know there's Sat lunchtime, 3pm, some evening kick offs and the usual Sunday's. With the MLS they're on different days and times with no rhyme or reason to either.

 

[Grannyknot]

Anyone else excited about Champions League football being back?

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

Totally OT to anything here. I'm just posting it for your amusement.

 

[ScotBrew]

Yep, I'll be cheering on my fellow Scottish team Celtic. Won't be surprised if they pull of a win tonight.

And I remember first seeing that video, thought it was hilarious!

 

[Grannyknot]

I hope Celtic wins as well.
I'd love to see them go deep into the tournament.

My Scottish team is hearts....tough season.

 

[ScotBrew]

Thanks for the 3 points last weekend!


Not the start Celtic had in mind though.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

What I don't get is why soccer players (the women obviously) look so much hotter on the pitch than they do outside of the pitch?

For a few case in points.

vs

vs

There are 2 exceptions to this rule of course, because no matter where they go Kelley O'Hara and Alex Morgan are always hot.