The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

[Reno_eNVy]

The MLS has a solid business model going, slowly growing and actually creating a demand for tickets. Had they gone "cosmos" the league would have folded again.

Most definitely. It's cool to see the Cosmos in NASL again but their old business model nearly destroyed soccer in America... 100 years of the sport shot down the drain (yup, that's right. The first competitive soccer match with official rules in America was shortly after the Civil War.)

This time they are using a more sane approach. Limited seating makes demand where people can't sit on their arse till game time to decide to go. I used to be heavily involved with the old Sounders and while they put a good product on the field for the price, they had to compete with a Sunny Seattle day for attendence. No limited seating, no demand. As you can see they figured it out for the MLS version.

Quite. I'm under the impression that they could easily open the entire 67,000 seats but they'd probably only sell-out every now and then when big names and rivals come to town (i.e. LA, NY, Vancouver, Portland.) But then you run into the issue of hiring enough security/concessionists to deal with 67,000 fans, and if the game isn't a sell-out then you have unnecessary overhead expenditure. They were very smart about it, opening a few thousand more each season based on pre-ordered season tickets. The same can be said of the new soccer-specific stadiums. Livestrong Sporting Park, PPL Park, and Stade Saputo could have easily been made larger but capping them at around 20,000 creates demand and provides max capacity well over the league average. And if I remember correctly, they are all designed for expansion. Plus there's BBVA Compass Stadium at 22,000, BC Place at 21,000, and then you have San Jose working on their new stadium which will be roughly 18,000. The only iffy stadium, IMMHO, is Red Bull Arena. They are set at 25,000 but almost never sell-out.

Those knocking the mexican league aren't really following soccer. The Mexican league is considered very good and very strong. A little corupt, but we're learning that about all of them these days.

My apologies, I wasn't necessarily bashing the league. I was just using it as a reference point. They are indeed a very strong league.

Why to they come to America to play? Top notch places to train, a clean water supply, Food that doesn't create food posioning, to expand the brand, to look at the american youth for possible future players.

Very good points.

Ecept just like Man U's coach, Chelsea's coach points out Ozzy Alonso.... How long Seattle keeps him with Seattle? maybe not beyond this season. He may be the next "American" to go to the EPL. Not bad for someone who's been an American for less than 30 days.

Yeah, he's been getting mad amounts of press for his performance, as he should be. Looks like he's no longer Seattle's best kept secret!

However, I'd go ahead and say that since he went to so much trouble to become a US citizen that he likely won't be going anywhere soon. I'm also under the impression that Klinsmann should invite him to the next camp! Having Beckerman as a holding-middie has opened up Michael Bradley to focus more on the attack, which is most certainly where he should be. The addition of "The Honey Badger" would give Klinsey options in that position as well as create competition for a starting spot, overall improving the Yanks play in the middle 3rd of the field.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

And to amend my previous post without it getting lost in my long-windedness D) RBNY just announced that they've officially signed Tim Cahill as their third DP. Having another big name like that might just boost their attendance.

 

[mrgstiffler]

Having a dedicated Olympic soccer channel is pretty sweet. Onto the 4th game of the day. First 2 were live, next two taped. Just gotta avoid score updates all day.

 

[lgilmore]

"I'm under the impression that they could easily open the entire 67,000 seats but they'd probably only sell-out every now and then when big names and rivals come to town"

Seattle learned a valuable lesson during their run in the second division. I worked with their front office as well as a large soccer program. On game day you literally had people standing there deciding if they wanted to spend a couple hours at the game or doing something else. It was brutal, since people knew they could walk up on game day if they wanted to there was absolutely no sense of urgency to buy tickets. The old Sounders never got the crowds they deserved simply because you could get a ticket without any problem on game day.

The new sounders figured that out this time. You should read all the complaints about people "not" being able to walk and buy a ticket on matchday. There's a lot of local complaining about not being able to just come down before kick off and get into the game. So what do people do that want to watch a game? They buy early and often. Seattle has a season ticket base of 34,000 or so and only a couple thousand game day seats availible which also go as single match purchases ahead of time. It is dam near impossible to walk up minutes before kick off and get a ticket from anyone other than scalpers. They figured it out.

 

[Punity]

Gspirrning is coming back just in time for postseason push.

 

[GarageDweller]

Seriously, what's so exciting about a club clinching the league championship weeks before the season is over? Great, that just rendered the remaining matches null-and-void, save the relegation battle.

Ok, not to drag this thread backwards, but you did watch the last EPL season didn't you? The whole thing was decided in the last 30 seconds of the last game. It was one of the most dramatic finishes ever. Plus the team that won it, although they spent a TON of money getting there, hadn't won a league title in decades.

Another topic that is interesting to me, is the MLS draft. I like the idea of the MLS draft, in that it gives college players a chance to make it to the next level etc., but no other countries are doing this. You are either good and you go and play your way through the ranks at the developmental level, or you're done. They are not recruiting college players to come in at the professional level. In the US, collegiate athletics provide a training ground for professional development in sports, and lets face it, NCAA is really not that high of a level in soccer. I played NCAA, I currently coach NCAA, but about 1% of these kids will play pro sports, the rest will make twice as much doing something that is much easier.

This raises the question, "Is college athletics killing the development of our higher level 'soccer' athletes?" I know, personally, a handful of kids that went on to play MLS after college. They made about $15k their first few years and went to A League to make more money. Sad, but true.

carry-on.....

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Ok, not to drag this thread backwards, but you did watch the last EPL season didn't you? The whole thing was decided in the last 30 seconds of the last game. It was one of the most dramatic finishes ever. Plus the team that won it, although they spent a TON of money getting there, hadn't won a league title in decades.

Yeah, this past season was an interesting one... but that is really not the norm. I don't claim to be an EPL expert or follow it as feverishly as I do MLS, but didn't Man U claim the 2010-11 title well before the season ended? Plus, since the start of the modern premier league, they have won it 12 times and have never placed lower than 3rd on the table. Then there's Arsenal who have placed top 5 since 1995, Chelsea in the top 6 since 1996, and Chelsea and Liverpool with 11 and 12 top 4 finishes, respectively.

While it would awesome for LA to have the kind of pedigree Man U has, I would find MLS to be quite boring if the top of the table was aaaaaaaaaalways the same. Instead of the beginning of the season being a clean-slate where anybody can win, you instead watch to see who can get lucky enough or who can outspend who to beat Man U.

 

[BrewKnurd]

Yeah, this past season was an interesting one... but that is really not the norm. I don't claim to be an EPL expert or follow it as feverishly as I do MLS, but didn't Man U claim the 2010-11 title well before the season ended? Plus, since the start of the modern premier league, they have won it 12 times and have never placed lower than 3rd on the table. Then there's Arsenal who have placed top 5 since 1995, Chelsea in the top 6 since 1996, and Chelsea and Liverpool with 11 and 12 top 4 finishes, respectively.

While it would awesome for LA to have the kind of pedigree Man U has, I would find MLS to be quite boring if the top of the table was aaaaaaaaaalways the same. Instead of the beginning of the season being a clean-slate where anybody can win, you instead watch to see who can get lucky enough or who can outspend who to beat Man U.

Ok, but just as 2012 doesn't mean the majority of seasons end that way, 2011 doesn't mean that the majority of seasons end THAT way, either. The title was decided by a point in 2009-2010, and 2 points in 2007-2008. You have to go back to 2004-2005 to find a margin as large as Man U's 9 point lead in 2011.

The argument, really, is whether you want to ensure a "lose or go home" ending, which obviously you can only do with a playoff, or if you want each game to potentially be the difference between a title or not, which is what you get with the EPL. You can look back on every single loss or draw that ManU had this season and if they had won that game, they would have won the title. You can't honestly say that about leagues with a playoff. Sure, seeding could come down to the difference in one win, and for the last team in/first team out of the playoffs, you can make that argument. But the majority of teams that made it to the playoffs weren't a game from missing out on a shot at the title.

On a side note, in american college football, I'm actually very pro playoff because of how few of the best teams actually play each other in a given season. But in the EPL, where everyone plays everyone, you can't argue that you didn't get a chance, and to me, the system in the EPL ensures that the best season is rewarded. Not the team that got hot at the end, the team that had the best season.

As for your point about the Big 4 (although I think we can agree that the traditional big 4 is out the window with the rise of Man City and Tottenham and the fall of Liverpool), I agree that this is a negative of the EPL (and even more extremely so with La Liga) from the fan's perspective. However, given the importance places on the Champions League, I don't foresee the european leagues actually wanting to promote parity, since it would likely result in top teams coming down a bit, and therefore a reduction of european success.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Thanks. Like I said, I don't claim to be an EPL expert.

And yes, FBS needs to die a painful death in place for a playoff system. I have a lot more to say on that point since my school is in a mid-major conference but I really really don't want to open that can of worms. FBS homers are as bad as Fundies.

 

[GarageDweller]

good points all. this must be the most civil discussion i've ever had about sports.

 

[Punity]

good points all. this must be the most civil discussion i've ever had about sports.

Well come on now. Soccer is the civilized sport haha

 

[aygov]

On the college sports front I think that's were a large difference lies. College sports is HUGE business over here in the states. England not so much. Professional teams over there already have well established youth academies packed with up and coming youngsters. I'm seeing the practice start up over here but I can imagine the push back that will occur once it gains traction. Teams offering youth contracts to 16 year olds will certainly ruffle the feathers of academia. Not to mention the hesitancy of new players opting for this new system over the old tried and true way. In a draft you seem to have more chances at getting a spot. With the academy you're kind of hitching your cart to one horse expecting that that horse won't dump you along the way.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Well come on now. Soccer is the civilized sport haha

There's actually some truth to that. Studies have shown soccer fans on average are more intelligent.

The only (even slightly) heated discussions I've had about soccer are with anti-soccer people.

 

[Catfish78]

.

The only (even slightly) heated discussions I've had about soccer are with anti-soccer people.

Isn't that the truth. Back in the states I always had to defend soccer from the usual complaints, "it's boring", "it's slow", "no one scores", etc. I am a big fan of baseball as well and pretty much use the same material to defend baseball to Europeans.

 

[mrgstiffler]

US women play at 9am PST. Already set my alarm.

 

[lgilmore]

"There's actually some truth to that. Studies have shown soccer fans on average are more intelligent"

Yes, I always point out when people decry public education in America and cite other nations as superior, that all those soccer hooligans are really MBA's and PHD's on their day off........

It goes like this "Soccer is a gentleman's sport played by hooligans and Rugby is a hooligan's sport played by gentlemen."

Nice pop in the eye by the columbian defender today while the ball was away...

 

[davekippen]

Great showing by the USA Women today!

 

[Punity]

Great womens game. Is there anyone that can stop the US?

 

[mrgstiffler]

Lots of fun to watch. That was a very dirty punch too. Anyone else notice that the referee was practically an identical twin to Jo in Eureka?

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

On the college sports front I think that's were a large difference lies. College sports is HUGE business over here in the states. England not so much. Professional teams over there already have well established youth academies packed with up and coming youngsters.

Those academies even sign kids under 10 and educate them themselves. They can be worth several million at 16. If they waited for them to finish playing low quality footy at university, they would be well past playing at the top level. So yeah, it's a make or break situation as far as a career in footy goes.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Some notes on the MLS action:

- Damn, Portland... get your s**t together. Maybe instead of sacking Spencer it should have been Boyd that got replaced by a striker who can actually finish
- FCD national anthem singer.... just... wow. Worst rendition ever... and even worse that she druuuuuuug it on and on. It actually hurt to listen. I'm glad LA won, almost as a punishment to whoever let this poor girl sing
- Great goals each from Alonso and Lenhart
- F**k you Portland, your fans deserve better (sorry I had to mention them more than once because they were just that bad)

 

[lgilmore]

Reno, pretty much spot on. I actually turned away from LA/Dallas because of that anthem. Man, it was hard on the ears and didn't seem to want to end.

As far as Portland, can't figure them out. They play Seattle like it's war, but lay down for just about everybody else. They play very uninspired football in the games I've watched. The back four is horrid. And Boyd, well Boyd looks like the international you used to see in the old NASL, the guy that was a star in europe, but retires to the US to finish their career. Too slow, not enough ball skills to dominate here. Portland needs to overhaul the entire side. They've gone backwards this season.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Yeah, Portland are the enigma of the league. And you are 100% correct about the old NASL analogy.

Either way, the fans are true supporters for continuing to show up in droves... the question then is can they keep that up if the quality of play continues to dwindle.

 

[Joker]

I can't figure out what the Timbers are thinking, they have what I think is some of our best talent sitting the bench and continue to get new people and immediately put them in as starters. Richards and Kimura both looks to nervous to play, as soon as they get the ball they are immediately looking for a way to get rid of it, Boyd is F'ING worthless 95% of the time with his walking around or wrestling the defender so he has an excuse for not getting to the ball. In the pre-season build up of Boyd they claimed if he touches the ball, it will be a goal. Yeah right.

Spencer definitely was not the teams problem as they have proved since getting rid of him.

We had a meet the team BBQ Sunday the only players from Saturdays game brave enough to show up were Songo, Kaliff, and Kimura

I would like to see them field Fucito, Mwanga, Songo, Zizzo, Nagbe, Kaliff, Jewsbury, Chabala, Horst, Futty, and Perkins

 

[Reno_eNVy]

Jewsbury not starting is beyond my scope of comprehension....

 

[Punity]

I cant say watching Portland spiral doesnt give me a little smile.

 

[Reno_eNVy]

A decent showing by the USWNT against North Korea. Yup, North Korea... because "Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea" is beyond laughable.

And officiating stays consistently awful.

 

[mrgstiffler]

A decent showing by the USWNT against North Korea. Yup, North Korea... because "Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea" is beyond laughable.

And officiating stays consistently awful.

Yeah, I felt she swallowed her whistle on would-be fouls against the US a lot.

 

[FlyDoctor]

I was a bit disappointed they didn't do better, but then they didn't have to. But if they were happy with their play, why where they aggressive near FT? as Brandi was saying - risking injury when they should've just played possession...

 

[FlyDoctor]

BTW - what's up with the Chastain-Solo feud? Pretty funny.