System decision. Please help. (e)BIAB vs. Brutus/Breweasy style

[Baglorious]

Apologies to start - yes, this is another "what kind of system?" thread. I have searched, and frankly, the search results aren't terribly helpful for thoughtful information on this particular issue of BIAB vs a 'similar' system that uses the 2nd vessel, but generally the same principle of starting with full volume. There are many BIAB advocates out there, but not that much information on BIAB vs 2 vessel setups.

I am upgrading... mostly for size increase, but also to go electric. I have done a few batch sparge all-grain batches, but am a relative all-grain newb. By scouring the interweb for local used stuff... I have already acquired some good gear, and can (largely) go either way, or both. Doing research for the past several months... I was going to order a Wilserbrewer bag, lol... so I just decided to buy several at once, assuming I'd eventually use them in some configuration.

I got a Blichmann Tower of Power controller on clearance, I've got a pump, I've still got my 10gal Igloo mashtun w/ false bottom (and a Wilserbag I can use in it as well). I have all the stuff to build a 70qt Igloo mashtun (except for the cooler... lol... and I don't mind throwing $50 into the project to complete that).

I am now in the market for a kettle... and am going to buy (probably) a 20gal kettle, or perhaps even a 25 gal kettle. The Brewmaster 25 gal electric setup from Bobby at Brewhardware seems like a good value buy.

I am looking to be able to to 10 and 15 gal batches. (Maybe even 20 someday, if I were to buy a 25 gal kettle and have the option to go 2 vessel.)

I will be setting up in my basement, and can set up a fairly optimal hoist system for the giant 15gal BIAB spent grain bag.

It seems that if I buy a 25 gal kettle with the 5500w element - I'm set for eBIAB, and can recirculate. (I don't want to address the recirculate debate here.)

However, I'm considering going for a 20gal kettle, and going with a two tier (gravity + 1 pump) system... replicating the Brutus (or Breweasy) type 2 vessel setups.

Seemingly, the main advantage of the 2 vessel seems to be the arguably clearer wort into the BK, as you get the functionality of the grain bed filtration?

And you can go 'bigger' in volume with BK size? (i.e., you can do a 15 gal batch in a 20 gal boil kettle, where you can't do that with BIAB... and need the 25 gal kettle). (That's not really an advantage in this instance, as I can buy either a 20 or 25 gal kettle, and get 15 gal batches either way...)

Any other arguable advantages of the 2 vessel system?

I don't mind the idea of 2 vessels... seemingly the mashtun can be cleaned during the boil, so the shorter brew day remains... shorter.

On the flipside, so many people seem to believe BIAB is more than adequate (great), so why mess with more complicated system?

Anyone with experience with BIAB vs a 2 vessel setups?

Thanks

 

[hottpeper13]

I have it all,and can brew BIAB, MIAB, , 1 vessel, 2 vessel and 3 vessel, pump and gravity.
My system was put together like Johnny Cash's car(one piece at a time). So the gravity was used until I got a pump and I still use the HLT up top to gravity sparge my bag. I use all 15 gal vessels and can do 1.126- 5 gal batches and up to 1.090- 10 gal batches. My system was maxed out on Monday the 1st at 30.5 lbs of grain and 9.5 gal of brewing liquor to start in the bag and sparged with 7 gal gravity run while the bag was hanging. The most important part for me is maintaining the correct mash pH,when doing full volume mashes.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Anyone with experience with BIAB vs a 2 vessel setups?

Maybe your question is really: "Does anybody have experience with 15+gal BAIB?"

I don't. I am sure it can be done, but it seems to be pushing the simple brewing concepts of BIAB.

I would back up and look at your budget and needs. Are you able to spend several thousand dollars on a built system? Do you have the time/knowledge/tools/desire to build a system yourself? Do you have an area for your brewing system? What will it cost to wire the electric to support large size electric brewing?

If you are talking about 15 to 20 gal batches, I hope you are already an experienced brewer, likely with an existing system and experience brewing following some process(es). Can you build off your equipment and knowledge?

For me, 5 gal batches are enough to keep on tap for a couple months and to share several growlers at events, but I really enjoy the flexibility of 2.5 gal batches.

 

[Baglorious]

Maybe your question is really: "Does anybody have experience with 15+gal BAIB?"

Are you able to spend several thousand dollars on a built system? Do you have the time/knowledge/tools/desire to build a system yourself? Do you have an area for your brewing system? What will it cost to wire the electric to support large size electric brewing?

If you are talking about 15 to 20 gal batches, I hope you are already an experienced brewer, likely with an existing system and experience brewing following some process(es). Can you build off your equipment and knowledge?

Able to spend several thousand dollars on a built system? I sure can! I hear those generally come with a free divorce.

I'm not interested in spending several thousand dollars. But I already have a lot of stuff, including a 240v controller (as stated), and can use an unused hot tub circuit (for the cost of another spa panel and some conduit, etc.) to get 240v into my brew area. I can complete a functional system without much more investment... probably less than $700 or far less, no matter what I choose. It won't be a nice Spike/SSBrewtech/Blichmann with matchy kettles on a nice stainless table... but it will brew just fine. For about $400, I can do 15gal BIAB (25 gal kettle)... or to go a different route and do 2 vessel with a 20ish gal kettle.

I've done extract, and I've done all grain. Whether I'm an 'experienced' brewer (nope, by comparison) is somewhat irrelevant. I am looking to acquire something fairly reasonable, and will not be dropping $3k I will continue to learn and gain experience on it, as I have been doing on various systems to this point.

The lack of experience is the very reason for the questions... looking for advice from you experienced folks! Don't want to regret a decision.

Thus far, everything I've made (extract and all grain) has been very good. Not intended as a prideful statement... I've done zero recipe crafting myself. I've just followed instructions/recipes from my local shop, or copied the stuff on the internet, and being careful about the process. Friends and family enjoy it (a lot), and I'm going to be brewing and sending a couple of 5 gal kegs out the door and into others' kegerators. (Without violating any excise/licensing laws.) That's my motivation for going bigger.

I am aware that 15 gallon batches can be done with BIAB; Perhaps it isn't common, but it is do-able, with all the same advantages and disadvantages of smaller batches. Just a bit more challenging to deal with the bag. (But I like tinkering... and will set up a system to hoist the bag.)

I'm just inquiring about the 2 vessel system.. .and whether people with experience on both think it is has distinct advantages wherein I should focus on that, rather than just the large eBIAB.

I suppose one of the questions I should have (for a 2 vessel system): Can a 20 gallon brew be accomplished with a single 5500w element at 240v within 'reasonable' time? (That's probably a 22 gallon starting boil volume?)

If boiling 22ish gals with a single element is absurdly slow (or impossible)... that probably ends the debate, and I'll stick with 15 gal batch maximum. I don't think I want to mess with a putting 2 elements in a kettle. (However... with the lid on and a steam condenser... boiling takes less power. Perhaps the 30a 5500w element works well enough with the lid on?)


Thanks for any further advice.