Syracuse, ny - round 5 group grain buy

[rustbucket]

i have more to come, i just want to make sure my buddy is committing to the sacks or not.

 

[CidahMastah]

Copyright. Actually just noticed there is no C135 on the catalog... so guess that means I am out of that for now . I put you on the C120, so let me know if that is not ok.

 

[rustbucket]

cidah, lol, i was wondering that.. i just didnt pay much attention to if it was on there or not.... haha

 

[CidahMastah]

cidah, lol, i was wondering that.. i just didnt pay much attention to if it was on there or not.... haha

Yeah I have used it lately in quite a few recipes... and I swear I saw it in there... but never actually checked haha oh well! Sunset has it

 

[bierhaus15]

I'd go in on the 1/3 bag of TF Roast Barley.

Also, I would like to split a bag (1/3) of TF Brown Malt and Pale Chocolate if there is any interest.

 

[CidahMastah]

gotcha down! up to 10 bags and a boat load of great split opportunities!!!

 

[rustbucket]

ok here comes a lot more...

1 x CM-SPIL
2 x CM-2ROW
1 x GW-VIEN

put me down for the 1/3 pale chocolate malt

 

[CidahMastah]

gotcha down rust... I too am considering a few more...

 

[jbsengineer]

What do you guys store your grains in?

 

[jhenderson27]

Airtight buckets or big bins.

 

[CidahMastah]

I use the dog food containers on wheels. I also have a couple huge plastic barrels that I put my overstock of 2row, etc. in. They have a sealing band on them (can give you more info on them if you need it).

 

[user 54886]

What do you guys store your grains in?

Homer buckets, lots of them.

 

[jbsengineer]

I was thinking Home Depot buckets with the seal. Great. How long do you guys keep them in the buckets?

 

[CidahMastah]

let's put it this way - people on HBT report using grain stored like this (dry, airtight) over two years old and making great beer. Just don't crush it until you are going to use it. I can say that I have grain from when we first started the buys and it is still smelling super fresh.

I store the grain in its original bag (if I have it) and in the container

 

[copyright1997]

I'm relatively new to this but did some research when I first saw the group buys and knew I wanted to be able to store grains over a longer term. The best place to learn about storage is on various survivalist forums. Those folks take LONG TERM food storage seriously, and you can learn a lot. (For instance, there are techniques to store various foods for 25-30 years!). Anyway, from that my setup is:
1. Get FOOD GRADE containers (and lids) unless you are storing the grains in something that is food grade that you are putting in the container. HD buckets (the orange ones at least) are NOT food grade.
2.Lids with seals are good to use. An alternative is to use Gamma Seal lids. I showed on to Cidah when I picked up my grains. They are expensive, but really work well as you can twist them on/off and still get a great seal.
3.I'm storing some loose grains in containers w/Gamma seal lids, but for things I expect not to use for a longer period of time, I am first sealing them with a vacuum sealer and then keeping them in a sealed container. I managed to get this seal-a-meal from newegg for $25 shipped on sale, so look around for deals.
4.For even longer storage, air is you enemy, so the best route is to seal whatever your trying to store in mylar bags with oxygen absorbers. Here's an example of some I bought (via Amazon), but haven't used yet. You can seal these with an iron, or there are tricks where you can use a seal-a-meal/foodsaver in conjunction with the mylar. (If anyone wants to know, I can look up some of the links).

The side benefit of a vacuum sealer is that I also use them for hops. Open the hops, use some, reseal and back into the fridge/freezer.

 

[CidahMastah]

There is a lot of controversy on whether or not the HD buckets are made from food grade plastic. I have never read definitive information that they are not (please post it up if you have). Thus far everything has been claiming proof by a lack of food grade certification. here is my understanding of this debate:

1. The buckets are marked (HDPE 2) with the same plastic rating that food grade buckets are.
2. Not all buckets with the HDPE 2 marking are "foodgrade."
3. However the buckets are not certified "food grade".
4. Any color bucket can be food grade, except for black.

Conclusion: So while the aren't certified food grade, they very well could be food grade buckets, just not certified because the buyers don't care to pay extra for a certification based on their end use.

I personally think you would be fine with them, and would avoid using them for transfer of hot liquids (though I have done that myself from time to time )

So you decide on how you want to use them. A HD bucket holds just under half a bag of grain depending on what it is. Half a bag of heavier (per piece) grains like wheat and rye will easily fit in a HD bucket

Those gamma lids are pretty cool. But I already invested in the doggy bins . I ahve considered getting some airtight containers for the specialty grains, but twisting up the bags and tossing them in the doggy bins works really well, and it is free!


The great thing about the grain buy is that you generally will save at least 3 times the cost of grain sold in a LHBS or online. So if you were to use 1/3 of the grain you buy and the rest went bad due to your own poor storage, you would still be paying regular price.

 

[copyright1997]

There is a lot of controversy on whether or not the HD buckets are made from food grade plastic. I have never read definitive information that they are not (please post it up if you have). Thus far everything has been claiming proof by a lack of food grade certification. here is my understanding of this debate:

1. The buckets are marked (HDPE 2) with the same plastic rating that food grade buckets are.
2. Not all buckets with the HDPE 2 marking are "foodgrade."
3. However the buckets are not certified "food grade".
4. Any color bucket can be food grade, except for black.

Conclusion: So while the aren't certified food grade, they very well could be food grade buckets, just not certified because the buyers don't care to pay extra for a certification based on their end use.

I personally think you would be fine with them, and would avoid using them for transfer of hot liquids (though I have done that myself from time to time )

So you decide on how you want to use them. A HD bucket holds just under half a bag of grain depending on what it is. Half a bag of heavier (per piece) grains like wheat and rye will easily fit in a HD bucket

Those gamma lids are pretty cool. But I already invested in the doggy bins . I ahve considered getting some airtight containers for the specialty grains, but twisting up the bags and tossing them in the doggy bins works really well, and it is free!


The great thing about the grain buy is that you generally will save at least 3 times the cost of grain sold in a LHBS or online. So if you were to use 1/3 of the grain you buy and the rest went bad due to your own poor storage, you would still be paying regular price.

Cidah, I think the best way is to ask the manufacturer whose # is typically stamped on the bottom of the bucket. However, a search for "are home depot buckets food safe" turns up lots of discussion, including:
1. This thread (supposedly) contains email correspondence between someone and leaktite (the manufacturer of HD buckets).

Philip,
Thank you for your email. Unfortunately the Orange Home Depot buckets are not designed for food storage. The bucket is manufactured for the paint and hardware industry and Leaktite does not recommend their use in contact with food.
Thank You,
　
Jay Brooks
Vice President National Accounts | Leaktite Corporation
(O) 978-870-1080 | (C) 978-855-4490 | (F) 978-534-3539
Email: [email protected]

Also, this thread

2. Another thead discusses the Walmart 5 gallon WHITE paint buckets which apparently ARE food safe.

3. If you really want some bedtime reading (to put you to sleep), here's some FDA materials regarding packaging:
This link deals with Closures with sealing gaskets for food containers.
This link deals with the use of recyled plastic in containers.

The way I am playing it is that I have a set of food-safe containers that I bought (6 gallons each + the Gamma seal lids). In addition, I am accumulating known food-safe containers from my co-op ($1/each minus my member discount). For instance, I picked up a 5 gallon+ container that had Agave in it with a lid. I feel pretty confident given its contents that it is safe to use. Finally, I've bought some of the Walmart white buckets and also some HD lids. With these, I will make sure that the stuff I put in it is in some sort of a liner (or vacuum sealed in a sealer bag).

My motto is better safe than sorry, especially since it isn't that much difference cost wise in the end. (It's not like I am using the bucket one time and throwing it away.) However, your statement "So while the aren't certified food grade, they very well could be food grade buckets, just not certified because the buyers don't care to pay extra for a certification based on their end use. " may be true....but is it worth worrying about given you can find used known food-safe buckets for a buck?

 

[CidahMastah]

Cidah, I think the best way is to ask the manufacturer whose # is typically stamped on the bottom of the bucket. However, a search for "are home depot buckets food safe" turns up lots of discussion, including:
1. This thread (supposedly) contains email correspondence between someone and leaktite (the manufacturer of HD buckets).


Also, this thread

2. Another thead discusses the Walmart 5 gallon WHITE paint buckets which apparently ARE food safe.

3. If you really want some bedtime reading (to put you to sleep), here's some FDA materials regarding packaging:
This link deals with Closures with sealing gaskets for food containers.
This link deals with the use of recyled plastic in containers.

The way I am playing it is that I have a set of food-safe containers that I bought (6 gallons each + the Gamma seal lids). In addition, I am accumulating known food-safe containers from my co-op ($1/each minus my member discount). For instance, I picked up a 5 gallon+ container that had Agave in it with a lid. I feel pretty confident given its contents that it is safe to use. Finally, I've bought some of the Walmart white buckets and also some HD lids. With these, I will make sure that the stuff I put in it is in some sort of a liner (or vacuum sealed in a sealer bag).

My motto is better safe than sorry, especially since it isn't that much difference cost wise in the end. (It's not like I am using the bucket one time and throwing it away.) However, your statement "So while the aren't certified food grade, they very well could be food grade buckets, just not certified because the buyers don't care to pay extra for a certification based on their end use. " may be true....but is it worth worrying about given you can find used known food-safe buckets for a buck?

I agree with the spirit of you point, don't get me wrong. My ultimate point is, at the end of the day will this have a significant impact on your health or the grain quality? I just don't think it will. I certainly could be wrong about that.

Do I think the beer we drink is more dangerous to your health than a nonfood safe certified plastic container in contact with your grain? Yes.

Just the same, I don't have any naked grain in bins, all my grain is in a grain bag or giant ziplock, then in the bins to reduce air contact

Good info though - I pretty much knew you would give us some good info on the subject (I knew you had done your homework), so thanks for that

 

[rustbucket]

i bet you that the reason they are not food safe, (not the material itself) but because they probably lube the molds for injection molding with a petroleum based lube/oil instead of a food grade lube.

personally i dont care enough... to worry about it, i have much bigger things to worry about... (such as if ill have enough grain to keep brewing )

 

[CidahMastah]

Haha. Rust, one strategy you could employ:

Risk mitigation of HD buckets:
1. Use grain as quickly as possible by brewing as frequently as possible to avoid contamination from long term storage.

 

[jhenderson27]

I use the lowes buckets and lids as is. I have only grown an additional toe! Trust me ypur better off worrying about ****ty water as last i checked we boil the product, hence killing all remaining bacteria. Been good for me, all my bathes come out well. Rust and cidah are still kicking after drinking all my diff brews!

 

[rustbucket]

I use the lowes buckets and lids as is. I have only grown an additional toe! Trust me ypur better off worrying about ****ty water as last i checked we boil the product, hence killing all remaining bacteria. Been good for me, all my bathes come out well. Rust and cidah are still kicking after drinking all my diff brews!

pretty much, altho while drinking your brews, one of my arms has gone numb and has not awaken yet, plus i think my right eye dropped a good 1/2 inch, but i cant really tell since im cross-eyed now anyway.. lol :fro: but yeah there is no need to worry about the buckets...

 

[copyright1997]

I'm actually much less worried about grains used for brewing than other food I store in containers. I don't want to sound like a survival nut, but I started looking into this stuff because I occasionally buy things in bulk (e.g. Sam's Club) and have had issues with mice and had to throw away a s__t load of stuff. So, I started trying to figure out what I could do what 25# of Jasmine Rice or a big package of sugar or whatever, and that is how I stumbled into the food storage discussion.

Regarding water, well that *is* a bigger concern. I have well water and given this you have to worry about critters getting in your well, etc. The good thing about beer (historically) is that since it is boiled the bad things are killed. (Which is one of the reasons long ago the second runs were served to children as it was safer to drink than the water.) Because of this, I try to be careful regarding sanitation and make sure I boil (sterilize) any water that will be added or used post-boil.

 

[copyright1997]

Hi all, in one of my earlier posts I mentioned that I use a vacuum sealer that I got pretty cheaply. I just noticed that it is one of newegg's daily "Shell Schockers" and is available (today only) for $23.99 shipped. Here's a link for anyone that is interested. It probably isn't as good as a high end food saver, but it does the trick for what I want. As a comparison, this is $51 on Amazon and $45 at Overstock.

If you haven't used newegg before, they usually have very quick shipping and I can't begin to tell you how much money I've spent there on computer parts and audio/video equipment.

 

[rustbucket]

thats the same one i have i think i paided like 30 after shipping from woot.com it works well for what i use it for. i would suggest buying a few rolls of sealer bag too tho...

 

[bierhaus15]

A friend of mine is interested in 1/3 Brown malt and 1/3 pale chocolate. I think that completes the pale.

Should be ordering another 5-10 bags worth of base malt here soon.

 

[TwoGunz]

Whoa, I must be snoozing... Didn't know round 5 was game on. I'm bummed I missed that roasted barley split. I'll do an inventory check and probably go for some specialties.

Btw, I skimmed through the bucket discussion. I upgraded my bucket lids to the gamma seals a little while ago and they kick ass.

 

[CidahMastah]

I ahve you down bierhaus.

Twogunz - I was wondering where you were on the RB!

up to 15bags so far

 

[jhenderson27]

Cidah its a go for shipping to me. I just need a weeks heads up to put in the time off to check it in.

 

[TwoGunz]

Put me down for 1/3 roasted barley, after a double brew day with an oatmeal and an extra stout today... Im all out! I'd go up to 1/2 as well if anybody wants the other piece.