Sweet/Twangy Taste

[tozebeach]

I am 5 or so extract batches in and I need a hand improving my future brews. It seems like my brews develop a sweet/twangy taste after they have been bottled for two months or so. I recall them tasting very good 3-4 weeks in the bottle but after that some of them have the sweet/twangy taste to them. I am not sure if the beers are aging poorly or if there are major differences from bottle to bottle from the same batch? My FG has been higher than I would have liked it to be at around 1.017-1.018 every time. I am going to get an aeration system for my next batch to try to get the gravity down. I have used S-04 and US-05 on a NB Caribou Slobber and Black IPA respectively. I re-hydrate every time and I even double pitched the BIPA because of the high OG. I have heard a lot of people describe a twang associated with extract brewing. I am worried that in addition to the aeration system I will have to switch to all-grain brewing also in order to get good tasting beer. Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[tozebeach]

Some other info...I ferment for three weeks in a temp controlled fridge at 65F. I do a partial boil of about 4 gallons. In both of these batches I believe I did add most of the LME late in the boil. I'm very disappointed after tasting my black ipa yesterday after a bit over a month in the bottles. It was stellar after two weeks in the bottle and now it's just not.

 

[JBmadtown]

The extract twang you read or hear about is usually related to extact in cans that is old. Your northern brewer kits probably had pretty fresh LME and so I doubt that is the issue.

I wonder if you like a high IBU:OG ratio? For a lot of brewers the beer is too bitter at first and then mellows. I wonder if you like the bitterness at first and not when it mellows. However, I would think that the cascadian IPA should have had a good number of IBUs.

Also, search for bitterness and water chemistry. Your water may be causing your brews to be more malty than bitter.

You can make good beer with extracts. However there are limitations. You don't always know how much unfermentable sugar is in an extract which affects your FG. You have more control with all-grain techniques.

 

[tozebeach]

The extract twang you read or hear about is usually related to extact in cans that is old. Your northern brewer kits probably had pretty fresh LME and so I doubt that is the issue.

I wonder if you like a high IBU:OG ratio? For a lot of brewers the beer is too bitter at first and then mellows. I wonder if you like the bitterness at first and not when it mellows. However, I would think that the cascadian IPA should have had a good number of IBUs.

Also, search for bitterness and water chemistry. Your water may be causing your brews to be more malty than bitter.

You can make good beer with extracts. However there are limitations. You don't always know how much unfermentable sugar is in an extract which affects your FG. You have more control with all-grain techniques.

Yes I would imagine that the NB stuff is pretty fresh. I refrigerated all contents of the kit and used it a week or so later. The BIPA had a good deal of hops in it and was fantastic (just needed a bit more carbing) two weeks in the bottle. Now after a month in the bottle it has an odd taste to it. There's definitely more going on here than just the hops mellowing out. I live on Long Island...usually our water is considered to be pretty good. It's very drinkable out of the tap. I don't know if it got infected or what...usually I picture an infected beer tasting much worse than what I have now...the beer is not undrinkable, it just tastes kinda strange.

 

[tozebeach]

Also, the Caribou Slobber (low hops) was good initially and now has twang.

 

[headfullahops]

That FG is on the very high side for anything that doesn't have Imperial or Barley Wine in the name. I am assuming that you allow your brew to ferment until the gravity readings are the same for 2-3 days; rather than sticking to the 5-7 day fermentation rule given to beginning brewers by well meaning mentors and the establishment. Are you doing a starter with your yeast? You may be severely under-pitching (although I have consciously under-pitched a few times and never ended up with severely under-attenuated beer).

I concur with the bitterness mellowing out over time and with a FG like that, it would end up being very sweet and/or full bodied (though most extracts are produced to be highly fermentable, so it is unlikely that an extract beer would be full bodied rather than sweet). I've found that a transfer to a secondary fermenter after 7-10 days in the primary can rouse the yeast enough to dry out a brew beyond what the equivalent amount of time in one vessel would permit, especially with a highly flocculant yeast strain like S-04. I would advise, once you have the issue ironed out, to drink more beer so you are on to the next batch before it mellows out too much (if you're in it for the bitterness).

 

[tozebeach]

That FG is on the very high side for anything that doesn't have Imperial or Barley Wine in the name. I am assuming that you allow your brew to ferment until the gravity readings are the same for 2-3 days; rather than sticking to the 5-7 day fermentation rule given to beginning brewers by well meaning mentors and the establishment. Are you doing a starter with your yeast? You may be severely under-pitching (although I have consciously under-pitched a few times and never ended up with severely under-attenuated beer).

I concur with the bitterness mellowing out over time and with a FG like that, it would end up being very sweet and/or full bodied (though most extracts are produced to be highly fermentable, so it is unlikely that an extract beer would be full bodied rather than sweet). I've found that a transfer to a secondary fermenter after 7-10 days in the primary can rouse the yeast enough to dry out a brew beyond what the equivalent amount of time in one vessel would permit, especially with a highly flocculant yeast strain like S-04. I would advise, once you have the issue ironed out, to drink more beer so you are on to the next batch before it mellows out too much (if you're in it for the bitterness).

I keep my beer on the trub for 3 weeks then bottle. I do rouse the yeast occasionally when the airlock bubbling starts to slow. The Caribou I just pitched 1 packed of S-04 re-hydrated. The BIPA I pitched 2 packets of re-hydrated US-05. I did not make a starter for either but I did add some yeast nutrient at the end of my boils. The mellowing of the bitterness isn't too much of an issue for me. The CS was not bitter to begin with. Currently I have a Pumpkin Ale almost ready to be bottled but I fear it's too late to do anything for that one that will change it's fate.

 

[headfullahops]

I would suggest trying liquid yeast if you can get it; and I have no reference to offer as why liquid yeast would be superior to dry yeast. All I know is that I've always used liquid yeast (Wyeast smack packs - 1098 British Ale for S-04 and 1056 American Ale for US-05) and have never had a problem that wasn't remedied with time and the aforementioned secondary transfer. What are the OG's on these brews you used as examples? if they're 1.050-1.070, you should be finishing out in the low teens... I finish out at 1.013 nearly every time with a single smack pack, no starter, and a 14 day ferment at 66˚-68˚ (my basement stays around 65˚-66˚ no matter the season) with dry hopped beers spending the final three days in a secondary.

 

[tozebeach]

I would suggest trying liquid yeast if you can get it; and I have no reference to offer as why liquid yeast would be superior to dry yeast. All I know is that I've always used liquid yeast (Wyeast smack packs - 1098 British Ale for S-04 and 1056 American Ale for US-05) and have never had a problem that wasn't remedied with time and the aforementioned secondary transfer. What are the OG's on these brews you used as examples? if they're 1.050-1.070, you should be finishing out in the low teens... I finish out at 1.013 nearly every time with a single smack pack, no starter, and a 14 day ferment at 66˚-68˚ (my basement stays around 65˚-66˚ no matter the season) with dry hopped beers spending the final three days in a secondary.

I have calibrated my hydrometer with distilled water and adjusted for temperature.

Caribou Slobber
OG 1.057
FG 1.018
ABV 5.2%

BIPA
OG 1.070
FG 1.017
ABV 7.0%

 

[RDatsun]

I have also had these problems, I now do late extract to boils and change my water . Been buying two 2.5 gallon and one 1 gallon jugs of spring water ,make sure to pitch anough yeast ,keep temps in low side of ferm. Swamp cooler t-shirt as wick and fan . I also do 2nd ferm both are in glass carboys ,10 days on co2 at 10 psi. Seems like twangs not there as bad. Never had any yeast probs w/Safale 05 dry or Nottingham !

 

[CrookedTail]

Hey tozebeach. I'm a Long Islander as well. I live in Patchogue. My wife works by you in Farmingdale.

Anyway it may just be a coincidence, but whenever I brew a beer that has the so-called "extract twang" to it, it's when the recipe uses anything other than the lightest extract possible. If the extract was made with some specialty malts (like Amber or Dark extract), that's when I get the twang. When I use light extract (I prefer DME as well) and steep specialty grains for flavor and color, my beers come out fine.

I'm not saying that's the cause, it just seems like that's the only time I've had the problem.

I know NB uses their amber and dark extracts a lot in their recipe kits. But that's not an indictment against their extract, mind you. I use their light and wheat extract all the time, and I think it's excellent quality.

Look for recipes where light extract is the only extract used, and let the specialty grains determine the color and flavor profile.