Stupid question about Juice.

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gt_andy

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My friends and are looking to make the Grandma's Apple Pie listed here.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f80/grandmas-liquid-apple-pie-389463/

We for the life of us could not find cider this time of year.

We made the batch last night with Indian Summer apple juice and Motts apple juice. Store didn't have enough of one or the other kind.. So we mixed it.

The next morning (right now) I was laying in bed thinking if the juice we use will even ferment. I cant find on the bottles it says it has preservatives. Both says 100% pasteurized juice.

I know Potassium Sorbate stops fermentation. I do not see in the ingredients that it has Potassium sorbate.. But it does have Potassium in it.

Is Potassium and Potassium sorbate the same thing and they are leaving out the word sobate?

So basically what I'm asking is..

Will these products ferment?
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Indian-Summer-Pasteurized-100-Apple-Juice-From-Concentrate-128-oz/10307348

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Musselman...fault&beacon_version=1.0.1&findingMethod=p13n

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mott-s-100-Apple-Juice-1-Gal/10535477
 
don't see where any of those contain potassium.

the left side of the nutrition label lists the ingredients, the right side lists the recommended daily amounts

all 3 of those should ferment
 
I don't think the issue is the potassium. The issue is whether the juice has had preservatives added to it to inhibit spoilage. If it has, and if the inhibitor is sorbate then you might need to dance on your eyelashes before the juice will ferment. If the juice has been pasteurized (heat) then it will ferment with no problem (although many folk will tell you that heat spoils some of the complexity of the flavors), and if the juice has been pasteurized with UV light then that will not create any problems with fermentation or with flavor. For the record, I have used Motts to make a cider and after 6 months it was really quite pleasant.
 
I have attached the nutrition facts here.. circled the potassium

motts.PNG


indian summer.PNG


musselman cider.PNG
 
I could not find anything on the bottle that it said it had preservatives in it.

And i was going to let it primary for 2 weeks.. the secondary for 3 weeks. Then bottle/keg.

Is that too short of a time?
 
Most store apple juice will be pastuerized with added ascorbic acid, which is vitamin c for preserving, and will not prevent fermentation. I usually use store apple juice to do a quick draft style cider. In that case I ferment dry and a few weeks in back sweeten with some more juice then keg.
 
So i should be ok..

I didn't just make 5 gallons that will not ferment?

I'm really looking forward to this batch. 13% ABV...
 
gt_andy said:
I have attached the nutrition facts here.. circled the potassium
Click to expand...

Apples have naturally occurring potassium in them. Not sure why that one lists it while the others don't. (& the original link for the Motts was broken, I went by one I could find)

& that right side of the label is NOT ingredients. It is the government's Recommend Daily Allowance values. It will be exactly the same on every nutrition label you look at. Ignore it
 
Thanks_Yeasties said:
The airlock should have some activity by now if it was pitched last night. Is it starting to churn?
Click to expand...

Currently at work.. I looked and watched the air lock this morning for about a minute or so and did not see it bubble. but that was 4 hours ago. I will check when I get home tonight another 4 hours.


Thanks for the help Everyone.
 
I made cider from Indian Summer with absolutely no issue other than taking longer than normal to get going. The vial of yeast was old, and I attributed it to that. It had steady tiny bubbles for about 30 days while fermenting.
 
IT'S BUBBLING!

Its in my basement currently. Its a little chilly down there currently. Average temp is about 60-65. I know that is really low. But I do not have an option to bring it upstairs where its comfortable temp (~68)

I have been wrapping it with warm towels to try to keep it a little warmer.. I'm not sure how effective that is..

Now its a waiting game.

My next question is.. When its done fermenting.. Will I have to back sweeten? the recipe does not say one way or the other. But it looks like i have a few weeks before i have to worry about that.



Thanks for the help. I have been brewing for 2 years now.. But, still a beginner at best. Mainly have stuck with Wine kits and Brew kits from brewer best. I have done a lemonade (skeeter pee) a few times with REALLY good results.
 
gt_andy said:
IT'S BUBBLING!

Its in my basement currently. Its a little chilly down there currently. Average temp is about 60-65. I know that is really low. But I do not have an option to bring it upstairs where its comfortable temp (~68)

I have been wrapping it with warm towels to try to keep it a little warmer.. I'm not sure how effective that is..

Now its a waiting game.

My next question is.. When its done fermenting.. Will I have to back sweeten? the recipe does not say one way or the other. But it looks like i have a few weeks before i have to worry about that.



Thanks for the help. I have been brewing for 2 years now.. But, still a beginner at best. Mainly have stuck with Wine kits and Brew kits from brewer best. I have done a lemonade (skeeter pee) a few times with REALLY good results.
Click to expand...

:tank:

I like my beer and my cider brewed in the low to mid 60s, so you're OK there, as far as I can see.

backsweeten or not? personal preference, man. which do you like? 1118 will definitely take it as dry as it can go, so if you like it semi-sweet or full sweet, you would have to backsweeten

you brewed 5 gallons, plenty to split the batch and try all 3 choices
 
I use the MOTTS and the Great Value brands from Walmart to make hard cider. Both ferment just fine. I do like the flavor of the MOTTS finished product better.
 
Update:

So I racked it last night to a secondary. Took a measurement and got .015 ish.


The thing that worries me is i took a taste. It was NASTY. Sour and tart. I guess kinda dry.. No apple taste at all. I can taste the overwhelming clover from the honey? Is it because it needs back sweating? Or its not aged long enough?

Any ideas how to correct this? There is no way i can drink that. I feel like i might have 5 gallons that will end up in the drain.

Thanks for the help.
 
It is only two weeks since you pitched the yeast... Even beer takes about a month or more before anyone would consider drinking it... so hang in there. What you have is , if I recall an apple wine (a wine (more than 10% ABV), not really a cider (about 5% ABV) with some sweetness (you said the final gravity was about 1.015). A gravity of 1.015 should not taste "dry". That is semi -sweet. So there are a couple of things you might do apart from allowing this wine to age a couple of months (or more).
The fundamental problem may be the relatively high ABV in the context of a relatively low concentration of fruit. So, one possible option is to see if you can find fruit flavor (not concentrate but the flavor itself ) to add to the wine. Your LHBS may sell 1 or 2 oz bottles of apple essence
Another thing to check is the TA (titratable acidity). You want it to be around .65%. If it much higher that might explain why you are finding the taste too tart. You might experiment by adding more lactic acid (I know, counter intuitive: you add acid to reduce acidity but TA is not the same as pH. pH measures the strength of the acids (not very relevant here except in the context of a) how well the yeast perform in low pH liquids and b) how much free SO2 your wine will need to inhibit spoilage over time(the lower the pH the less SO2 you need). TA measures the amount of acids in the wine and lactic acid is a less harsh acid than malic (malic being the predominant acid in apples).
If you have not added any sorbates to inhibit or stop fermentation you might consider adding a bacteria source to initiate an MLF (malo-lactic fermentation). This is a true "secondary" fermentation but it does not involve yeast. Bacteria will convert malic acids to lactic acids and that process reduces the tartness and in my opinion helps bring forward the flavor of the fruit. MLF is likely to spontaneously occur if you have the patience to allow all or some of your apple wine to age 9 months to a year.
You may also prefer a sweet wine and if so you may need /want to stabilize the wine to prevent any further fermentation and then add apple juice concentrate (or other sweetener) to increase the residual sugar content. I would do bench trials using known volumes (say 50 CC of the wine) and using known quantities of the sweetener and when you find a sweetness you really like then you calculate how much of the sweetener you need to add to the entire batch. Simply guessing and dumping X cans or bottles of concentrate into the 5 gallons is not very effective.
 
I hardly understand what was said above.

I followed the recipe. Why did i get different results then Everyone else?
 
needs a little time. wait 2 months and try it again.

if you notice from the recipe page you linked in your OP

Willie3 said:
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 4 Weeks

The longer it sits the better it gets!!!
Click to expand...

in the meantime, brew up another batch.

or, you may try back-sweetening if you don't like it dry. you said you were going to keg, maybe you'll like it better carbonated

I didn't like my first batch very much, so I freeze concentrated. gotta say, I like it a helluva lot better after that
 
So it has been 29 days.... Should i let this sit longer? or can i do something with it? and what should i do? I have not touched it since the 1st.
 
Can you draw a sample (sanitized baster, would be one method) and taste the cider to see if the flavors have mellowed and the beverage is more apple -like and drinkable today?
 
Update!

So this was made on 3-11-15 and it is now 6-3-15. I have added Apple flavoring to the batch, extra cinnamon sticks. I took a glass and added sugar to back sweeten... Its just... This stuff is just down right NASTY. I have narrowed down the part I don't like. Its the Nutmeg. NOT clover. We used only 1oz for the entire 5gal batch (the recipe called for it). I mean it is so NASTY it makes me want to gag when I take a sip. If it was not for the Nutmeg I believe it would be an OK drink.

Any Ideas on how to cover that tasite? I really dont want to pour the batch down the drain. But on the other hand it is taking up a bucket i can be using for a different brew.

I'm losing faith in this batch. I'm going to give it a few day and wait to see what answers i can get.. Then.. Down the drain she goes.
 
how did you get 13% ? did i miss where you said what yeast was used ?

i made apple cider/wine last fall, but even with adding brown sugar i barely got to 10% alcohol.

are you using concentrate cans ? or just pure juice ?
 
justenoughforme said:
how did you get 13% ? did i miss where you said what yeast was used ?

i made apple cider/wine last fall, but even with adding brown sugar i barely got to 10% alcohol.

are you using concentrate cans ? or just pure juice ?
Click to expand...

I have not measured mine yet. The recipe said it could be around 13%. I followed the recipe 100%. Like of recipe is on First post.
 
Oh, no

Sorry to hear. Not sure if that nutmeg taste will age out

can always add something , can never take out what was added.
 
I see in the recipe post that some people have aged this for like 7 months. Is that a real thing? Seems like a really long time.

I guess i can transfer it to some empty Gallon milk jugs to age for another 4-6 months.
 
I wouldn't age in thin plastic, but glass. I found with my first few batches of plain cider, if I left them in the apple juice bottle to ferment (w bubbler).. they were fine for a couple weeks, but then oxidation off flavors started to develop. Also, did you use yeast nutrient? Even when using at directed amounts, I found the flavor very off putting. If I ever do a high abv with lots of honey I would consider boiled nutritional yeast as the nutrients rather than risking using commercial yeast nutrients.
 
i did cider from fresh pressed juices, and left it 6 months before trying. it was okay. then forgot about it until now and i still haven't had much of it. it's been a year, i made six gallons. it's getting good as we round the one year mark.

i corked in normal wine bottles and they retained a slight effervescence, but nothing carbonated like a good cider. i used dry wine yeast.

... at 13% alcohol you're self preserving so you could cellar for five years. (someone can correct me i think fully preserved is 15%) you might be okay to bottle it (wine or beer bottles) and put a case aside to forget about for a long time.
 

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