Strike water too high?

[Javaslinger]

I let Beersmith calculate my strike water temp for my BIAB mash and I always seem to enter the Mash way high. For example, last batch I had 5.5 gal of mash water and the strike temp was 156 shooting for a starting Mash temp of 146. After doughing in with 16.75 lbs of grain - I was still over 150.

I'm doing a BIAB with a sparge because I only have a 7.5gal pot. In this case I sparged with 3.5 gallons.

Am I calculating this wrong somehow? or is Beersmith? I do measure my grain temp and put that into Beersmith, but even if it was was off it couldn't account for the difference.

 

[mongoose33]

I struggle to get the mash temp right in my BIAB setup. One of the things that goofs me up is I use a Blichmann Hellfire burner--and it retains a lot of heat that it gives up to the kettle when I'm mashing in.

It also takes several minutes to balance the temperature and in the interim I'm trying to figure out if I need to add heat, don't have enough, whatever.

Do you have a similar setup where your burner is retaining a lot of heat?

When I was doing traditional mash tun, typically I'd have my strike water at about 168, hoping it would fall to about 152. I preheated the mash tun w/ a gallon of boiling water. A typical grain bill would be 10-12 pounds.

Given that, and looking at your parameters, you have more water, but it's a lower temperature by quite a bit than mine. You also have more grain to cool the strike water down, and I'd think the lower temp and larger grain bill would offset, more or less, the temp and grain bill I used.

So--check on the retained heat thing.

 

[Mer-man]

I normally get 3C drop when mashing in (usually about 4kg into 20L of water, but sometimes more of both). Your experience sounds consistent with mine, OP.

 

[IslandLizard]

One of your settings may be wrong, but... don't discount the heat loss during doughing in. Although not 10°F, it's still significant.

Except for the recipe, I ignore most of BS. On brewday I use Brew 365's mash calculator.

I do need to key in a mash temp that's 4-6°F higher than intended to counteract the heat loss during the initial stirring while the lid is off. That's indoors! I wish the calculator had a field for that.

Using a 52 qt. cooler mash tun, or my boil kettle when doing step mashes.

 

[Griffin495]

Have you tried http://www.biabcalculator.com/? I've had good luck using it since I switched over to BIAB. Let you customize a lot of stuff like pot size, grain bill, grain temp, trub loss, etc.

 

[dyqik]

I let Beersmith calculate my strike water temp for my BIAB mash and I always seem to enter the Mash way high. For example, last batch I had 5.5 gal of mash water and the strike temp was 156 shooting for a starting Mash temp of 146. After doughing in with 16.75 lbs of grain - I was still over 150.

I'm doing a BIAB with a sparge because I only have a 7.5gal pot. In this case I sparged with 3.5 gallons.

Am I calculating this wrong somehow? or is Beersmith? I do measure my grain temp and put that into Beersmith, but even if it was was off it couldn't account for the difference.

You need to adjust your mash tun heat capacity and thermal mass (assuming that the setting to include the equipment thermal mass is set), and set the grain temperature and equipment temperature correctly, otherwise Beersmith can't calculate the right number.

You'll need to do at least one calibration run where you don't worry too much about the temperature to measure the thermal capacity and heat loss in transfer and mash-in for your equipment.

 

[beertastic]

Make sure you do NOT have "Adjust Temp for Equip" checked (on the Mash tab, under your Mash Profile). You are already pre-heated, you do not want this checked (unless you are setting your Mash Tun Temperature to your strike temp, but it's easier just to leave this setting unchecked). This alone could account for 2-3 degrees.

Also make sure you enter grain temp on brew day.

Other than that, I would reduce the heat as you get close to your strike temp, so you don't overshoot. Then give the kettle 5-10 mins to stabilize, stirring the water occasionally. It's possible the water is still heating a couple of degrees once you cut the flame. I know my keggle did.

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Make sure you do NOT have "Adjust Temp for Equip" checked (on the Mash tab, under your Mash Profile). You are already pre-heated, you do not want this checked (unless you are setting your Mash Tun Temperature to your strike temp, but it's easier just to leave this setting unchecked). This alone could account for 2-3 degrees.

Also make sure you enter grain temp on brew day.

Other than that, I would reduce the heat as you get close to your strike temp, so you don't overshoot. Then give the kettle 5-10 mins to stabilize, stirring the water occasionally. It's possible the water is still heating a couple of degrees once you cut the flame. I know my keggle did.

Alternatively, set the heat capacity of the mashtun to zero in the equipment editor.

As far as separate software calculations go, I would suggest my own pricelessbrewing.github.io/BiabCalc

 

[morbster]

Just my personal experience - Beersmith's recommended strike temp is always about 2 degrees F highest than it needs to be. I've just been offsetting it by that amount every batch, although I will try some of the suggestions from above to see if that corrects it.

 

[Javaslinger]

Have you tried http://www.biabcalculator.com/? I've had good luck using it since I switched over to BIAB. Let you customize a lot of stuff like pot size, grain bill, grain temp, trub loss, etc.

Damn confusing to use. I need some step by step instructions...

 

[Javaslinger]

Well, tried again... Beersmith suggested at strike temp of 168 with 5.2 gal to achieve a mash temp of 154 using 14lbs of grain. I dropped it to 164 based on prior experience.

What I observed was that my temp dropped zero upon doughing in. Crap... The advice I forgot to take that I probably should have was to let the strike temp/water stabilize for 5-10 minutes before doughing in.

So, yeah, it's not that my strike temp is too high, it's just not dropping at all after adding grain.

 

[dyqik]

Well, tried again... Beersmith suggested at strike temp of 168 with 5.2 gal to achieve a mash temp of 154 using 14lbs of grain. I dropped it to 164 based on prior experience.

What I observed was that my temp dropped zero upon doughing in. Crap... The advice I forgot to take that I probably should have was to let the strike temp/water stabilize for 5-10 minutes before doughing in.

So, yeah, it's not that my strike temp is too high, it's just not dropping at all after adding grain.

That can only be measurement error and/or inadequate mixing. You can't have grain with zero thermal mass.

 

[DSP-brasseur]

Have you tried http://www.biabcalculator.com/? I've had good luck using it since I switched over to BIAB. Let you customize a lot of stuff like pot size, grain bill, grain temp, trub loss, etc.

This was more accurate for my temps than beer smith. I am going back to this, ever since brewing with beer smith my beer hasn't been as tasty. I may have settings wrong, but that calculator gave me great beer.

 

[kh54s10]

Well, tried again... Beersmith suggested at strike temp of 168 with 5.2 gal to achieve a mash temp of 154 using 14lbs of grain. I dropped it to 164 based on prior experience.

What I observed was that my temp dropped zero upon doughing in. Crap... The advice I forgot to take that I probably should have was to let the strike temp/water stabilize for 5-10 minutes before doughing in.

So, yeah, it's not that my strike temp is too high, it's just not dropping at all after adding grain.

Well this is just not possible unless your grains are the same temperature as your strike water. If you put 70 to 80 degree grains into 164 degree water there is absolutely no way that the temperature of the mash would be 164 degrees.

If you are heating the water in the pot you are mashing in I would bet that it is still rising when you turn off the heat. Unless you move the pot off the heat source it is still adding heat to the pot. Maybe even longer than 5-10 minutes after shutting it off.

 

[brewbama]

You need to adjust your mash tun heat capacity and thermal mass (assuming that the setting to include the equipment thermal mass is set), and set the grain temperature and equipment temperature correctly, otherwise Beersmith can't calculate the right number.

You'll need to do at least one calibration run where you don't worry too much about the temperature to measure the thermal capacity and heat loss in transfer and mash-in for your equipment.

+1. I find BS pretty accurate when the settings are correct.

Well this is just not possible unless your grains are the same temperature as your strike water. If you put 70 to 80 degree grains into 164 degree water there is absolutely no way that the temperature of the mash would be 164 degrees.



If you are heating the water in the pot you are mashing in I would bet that it is still rising when you turn off the heat. Unless you move the pot off the heat source it is still adding heat to the pot. Maybe even longer than 5-10 minutes after shutting it off.

+1. Ck your thermometer

 

[casualbrewer]

Still don't know why biab brewers don't dough in at their actual desired temp or slightly under... Any temp loss will be quickly overcome within a couple minutes with heat on. A couple minutes below desired temp won't change a thing. I routinely dough in at about 120 degrees and slowly bring temp up to my main resting temp. Now this is good for my lagers that I want a little drier and crisp. If I want to mash at say 154 I just dough in at 154 and it will drop a few degrees but it will be back up to 154 within about 2 minutes...

 

[Morrey]

BeerSmith's temp suggestions should be regarded as a point to get you started. There are so many variations such as your kettle, burner type, environmental conditions, etc....it would be improbable that BS could replicate your exact situation.

Stir vigorously so the water at the bottom near the heat source is mixed evenly all the way to the top. Use a quality thermometer to take readings. Not suggesting particular therms but a Thermapen is a good choice.

Take notes until you start to zero in on the strike temp that seems to work for your system. Be consistent so your evaluations don't add in changes that you inadvertently create such as where you keep your grains prior to dough in.