Strategy for Multiple Kegs, CO2 Regulators, and CO2 Distributors

[MatthewMoisen]

From some basic research, I understand that a keg is force carbonated at one pressure, while it is dispensed at another pressure. These pressures will also vary by the style of beer. I have never kegged before.

If you have more than one keg, you have to make a decisions between the capabilities of your CO2 regulator and CO2 distributor.

For example, if you have 8 kegs and purchase one 2-way regulator, and 2 4-way distributors, you'll have to force carbonate half your kegs any time you wish to force carbonate a single keg.

From a noobs standpoint, I'm thinking that a 2-way regulator, one 7-way distributor, and one (1-way) gas line would be best: you will have 7 beers at dispensing pressure with one at force carbonation pressure. However, if different styles of beer must be dispensed at different pressures, this wouldn't work out well.

What is your strategy?

 

[aspiffymofo]

I recommend force carbonating at serving pressure. Should take about 2 weeks to get everything fully carbed up. The reason for this is that when you burst carb, it's easy to over carbonate. Most beers can really benefit from the extra two weeks of aging too.

The two way regulator is good, it's nice to be able to serve different styles of beer at different pressures... If you're just starting out, why not start with one reg and expand the system if needed?

 

[MatthewMoisen]

I'm expecting to purchase 8 kegs over the next 6-12 months so I would like to start out with expandability in mind so as to reduce cost in the future.

 

[RoundKid]

Get two tanks if you are up for the cost. I have a 20# with a 6 way and a 2.5# with a Y. The small one is for transfers, events, burst carbing (rarely). My big tank is in my kegerator. It is a six way because that's how many kegs fit in the fridge. I normally carbonate in the fermenter.


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[day_trippr]

Dispensing pressure should be the same as the proper carbonation pressure...

Cheers!

 

[MatthewMoisen]

Get two tanks if you are up for the cost. I have a 20# with a 6 way and a 2.5# with a Y. The small one is for transfers, events, burst carbing (rarely). My big tank is in my kegerator. It is a six way because that's how many kegs fit in the fridge. I normally carbonate in the fermenter.

Yesterday I purchased two tanks with a double regulator. Would you explain what a 20# and a 2.5# is?

Dispensing pressure should be the same as the proper carbonation pressure...

Cheers!

I apologize, but what is proper carbonation pressure? Is this the same as force carbonation pressure? I was reading that the two were supposed to be different.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]I apologize, but what is proper carbonation pressure? Is this the same as force carbonation pressure? I was reading that the two were supposed to be different.

Here is an HBT favorite carbonation chart. What this chart shows is the appropriate CO2 pressure for a given beer temperature to achieve a specific level of carbonation, expessed as volumes of dissolved CO2.

Once you have fully carbonated a keg, you want to maintain that level. If you drop your CO2 pressure to dispense, as the head space in the keg increases the beer will slowly lose carbonation. Clearly not an ideal solution.

A properly configured dispensing system will allow the use of the same CO2 pressure to dispense as used to force carbonate the beer. You can bet that folks that advise using a lower pressure have been living with improperly tuned systems...

Cheers!

 

[monkeybox]

what is proper carbonation pressure? Is this the same as force carbonation pressure? I was reading that the two were supposed to be different.

You don't have to "force" carbonate. If you leave it at the proper serving pressure, the beer will be appropriately carbonated in 1-2 weeks.

You can speed things up by using force carbonation, but most beers will benefit from the extra 2 weeks regardless.



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[chickypad]

You don't have to "force" carbonate. If you leave it at the proper serving pressure, the beer will be appropriately carbonated in 1-2 weeks.

You can speed things up by using force carbonation, but most beers will benefit from the extra 2 weeks regardless.

Ticky-tack I know, but you mean burst carbing. Burst carbing and set-and-forget are both methods of force carbonating the beer (as opposed to naturally carbing with yeast and sugar).

OP when you say a double regulator do you mean it has 2 gauges, or is actually a dual body regulator like this. With the latter you can run 2 different pressures, so you could use one to burst carb or (what I would do) is use it to have beers dispensing at 2 different carb levels. For many yrs I had just the one regulator with all 6 lines carbing and dispensing at the same pressure. I didn't actually buy a secondary regulator until recently to go with my stout faucet so I could carb beers at a much lower level.

To answer your other question, RoundKid means he has a 20 lb tank for his main one and a second small 2.5 lb tank. That's what I have too (20 and a 5), and it is nice to have a small portable one for transfers, etc. You save money on the large tanks, though, as fills are only minimally more expensive than filling a small tank. Last time I exchanged it was 20$ for the 20lb tank and 17$ for the 5lb.

 

[StopTakingMyUsername]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but this is relevant to a dilemma I'm currently facing.

I also strongly disagree with "2 weeks" to carb. Commercial breweries don't do it this way, and their beers have consistent carb, served at numerous different facilities, under different temp, line length, and pressure at each.

In addition, it doesn't make any sense to take a full TWO weeks to carbonate a very hoppy beer with volatile aromatics. By the time that beer has carbonated in 2 weeks, you've lost a large percentage of your hoppiness. Again, not the way many commercial breweries (under time constraints) are doing it. I know they have brite tanks, but that shouldn't matter.

I could be way off, but I don't think that 2 weeks is a valid option. Can anyone clarify that a bit more?

Is it feasible to just force carb the kegs in 2-3 days using a CO2 manifold with regulators to set each keg's desired pressure?
That seems like the ideal situation to me...

 

[chickypad]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but this is relevant to a dilemma I'm currently facing.

I also strongly disagree with "2 weeks" to carb. Commercial breweries don't do it this way, and their beers have consistent carb, served at numerous different facilities, under different temp, line length, and pressure at each.

In addition, it doesn't make any sense to take a full TWO weeks to carbonate a very hoppy beer with volatile aromatics. By the time that beer has carbonated in 2 weeks, you've lost a large percentage of your hoppiness. Again, not the way many commercial breweries (under time constraints) are doing it. I know they have brite tanks, but that shouldn't matter.

I could be way off, but I don't think that 2 weeks is a valid option. Can anyone clarify that a bit more?

Is it feasible to just force carb the kegs in 2-3 days using a CO2 manifold with regulators to set each keg's desired pressure?
That seems like the ideal situation to me...

Well you may not agree with it, but this is physics. If you use set and forget with the equilibrium pressure from the carb chart the beer will not be fully carbed in 2-3 days. You can go ahead and start drinking them any time, but they will be undercarbed until about 2 wks. I keep most of my beers around 2.5 vols, and find they are not quite there but good enough to enjoy about 1 wk in. If you want it fully carbed in 2-3 days you need to do a burst - something like 24 hrs at 30 psi then to equilibrium pressure should be close and avoid overcarbing.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but this is relevant to a dilemma I'm currently facing.

I also strongly disagree with "2 weeks" to carb. Commercial breweries don't do it this way, and their beers have consistent carb, served at numerous different facilities, under different temp, line length, and pressure at each.

In addition, it doesn't make any sense to take a full TWO weeks to carbonate a very hoppy beer with volatile aromatics. By the time that beer has carbonated in 2 weeks, you've lost a large percentage of your hoppiness. Again, not the way many commercial breweries (under time constraints) are doing it. I know they have brite tanks, but that shouldn't matter.

I could be way off, but I don't think that 2 weeks is a valid option. Can anyone clarify that a bit more?

Is it feasible to just force carb the kegs in 2-3 days using a CO2 manifold with regulators to set each keg's desired pressure?
That seems like the ideal situation to me...

I recently tried whirlpool hopping for the first time, and I did something like you described for faster grain-to-glass time. I usually use the 20week set and forgot method at a serving pressure of 11psi (40F keezer). For this IPA dripping with hop aromas I hooked it up to CO2 at like 25PSI with a separate small tank I have. I tried it every day thereafter until i was happy with the pour (2 or 3 days from kegging IIRC), then I bled the pressure and hooked it up to my standard system pressure of 11psi, worked great and I was drinking that beer 2-3 days from kegging.

 

[kombat]

Commercial breweries don't do it this way, and their beers have consistent carb, served at numerous different facilities, under different temp, line length, and pressure at each.

Commercial breweries generally force-carbonate inline with a carbonation stone during packaging. That is, as they pump the finished beer from the brite tank into the kegs or bottling machine, there's a 'T' junction somewhere along the line with a carbonating stone connect to a CO2 supply that dissolves CO2 into the beer as it flows past on its way to packaging.

The beer in the keg is always at the same volumes of CO2 in solution, regardless of what facility its going to. If the facility has longer serving lines, or varying temperatures, that's their problem, and they'll have to adjust their system accordingly to serve the beer without wasting too much to foam.

In addition, it doesn't make any sense to take a full TWO weeks to carbonate a very hoppy beer with volatile aromatics. By the time that beer has carbonated in 2 weeks, you've lost a large percentage of your hoppiness.

Agreed. Plus, I'm just plain impatient. I use Brulosopher's method, where I set the chilled keg to 30 psi for 24 hours, then purge and set to serving pressure. This gets me almost perfect carbonation every time, and lets me start drinking the beer within a day of racking it to the keg.

Is it feasible to just force carb the kegs in 2-3 days using a CO2 manifold with regulators to set each keg's desired pressure?

No. You'd have to set the pressure well above the target volumes of CO2 in order to "rush" dissolving CO2 into solution, and then dial it back and purge before you overshoot. Meanwhile, other (already carbed?) kegs on the same manifold would be overcarbing.

I use a separate tank to "speed carb" my kegs in 24 hours, then move them into the serving keezer and connect them up with the rest of my kegs at serving pressure.

 

[StopTakingMyUsername]

Well you may not agree with it, but this is physics. If you use set and forget with the equilibrium pressure from the carb chart the beer will not be fully carbed in 2-3 days. You can go ahead and start drinking them any time, but they will be undercarbed until about 2 wks. I keep most of my beers around 2.5 vols, and find they are not quite there but good enough to enjoy about 1 wk in. If you want it fully carbed in 2-3 days you need to do a burst - something like 24 hrs at 30 psi then to equilibrium pressure should be close and avoid overcarbing.

I don't disagree with the physics of it. I disagree with it being a valid approach under time constraints (IE; rushed production, volatile hoppy beers, etc).

Burst carbonating is a much better choice (as we both stated).

Now if you have a style that isn't time-sensitive, and are patient enough to wait... sure. take 2-3 weeks to carb it up

 

[spittybug]

I ferment in a corny. I have a floating dip tube to suck out of so that I don't get the trub when I pressure transfer to a clean corny. I push with 11 psi or so to transfer, sometimes through a filter depending on the beer. I'm pushing into the dip tube (liquid) post of the 2nd keg. Once all the beer is transferred, I let the CO2 chase it and bubble up through the beer. A little venting of the gas post lets the oxygen out as I'm transferring. This bubbling through the beer also seems to significantly speed up the carbonation process. I then set and forget, but I've given it a head start at that point.

 

[Beeru]

Get two tanks if you are up for the cost. I have a 20# with a 6 way and a 2.5# with a Y. The small one is for transfers, events, burst carbing (rarely). My big tank is in my kegerator. It is a six way because that's how many kegs fit in the fridge. I normally carbonate in the fermenter.

I'm wondering, what's to stop someone with one tank just having the one line that runs from the regulator to the distributer, then one line with a Y that you keep aside until you need it, and when you want to force carb a beer, just detach the line that runs to the distributer, and attach the new line with the Y connector, crank up your c02 pressure, force carb, then shut off you gas again, rehook it back up to the distributer, and then once your force-carbonated beer is ready, hook it up to your distributer?

Does this makes sense? I assume there wouldn't be any consequences of temporarily shutting the c02 off to the kegs that you already have carbonated, for just a few minutes?