Stopping fermentation
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Hi all,
I have currently got 40 gallons of cider sat in a whisky in my shed, that has slowly been fermenting since Oct
I have recently tasted a drop and really like it as it is, so was wondering if anyone knew how to stop fermentation now to keep the sweetness like that ?
Last time around I crushed a load of campden tablets and put them in a couple of weeks prior to bottling, but the cider ended up smelling very sulfery, so I want to try and prevent that but in the other hand I don't want my bottles exploding !! :-D
Many thanks
Matt
I have currently got 40 gallons of cider sat in a whisky in my shed, that has slowly been fermenting since Oct
I have recently tasted a drop and really like it as it is, so was wondering if anyone knew how to stop fermentation now to keep the sweetness like that ?
Last time around I crushed a load of campden tablets and put them in a couple of weeks prior to bottling, but the cider ended up smelling very sulfery, so I want to try and prevent that but in the other hand I don't want my bottles exploding !! :-D
Many thanks
Matt
Pie_Man
Well-Known Member
Campden tablets (potassium metabisulfate), I think.
Sulfites don't stop or inhibit fermentation.
Stopping an active fermentation is like stopping a freight train. Sometimes it works to put it in a very cold place, and then rack off of the lees and once it's totally clear, use sorbate (which inhibits yeast reproduction). That sometimes works. Often, though, once the cider warms up again, such as in a bottle, fermentation will resume and the bottles may blow up.
Some people like to bottle pasteurize, and there is a sticky thread on the top of the forum concerning this.
Stopping an active fermentation is like stopping a freight train. Sometimes it works to put it in a very cold place, and then rack off of the lees and once it's totally clear, use sorbate (which inhibits yeast reproduction). That sometimes works. Often, though, once the cider warms up again, such as in a bottle, fermentation will resume and the bottles may blow up.
Some people like to bottle pasteurize, and there is a sticky thread on the top of the forum concerning this.
kcmobrewer
Well-Known Member
Potassium Sorbate should stop it I'm pretty sure. My LHBS carries it.
Pie_Man
Well-Known Member
I wrote my first reply in response to your first post of this thread that just said, "Cider". I am glad you added complete sentences while I was drafting my resonse
I thought potassium metabisulfate stops/inhibits fermentation, but I never tried that myself (never had to), and I am probably wrong as Yooper disagrees. I would listen to her more than myself.
I do know a guy in my home brew club that removes the sulfur notes from his cider by running CO2 into the bottom of his keg and degassing the cider (I think he said he uses sulfates). Supposedly this works for him.
I thought potassium metabisulfate stops/inhibits fermentation, but I never tried that myself (never had to), and I am probably wrong as Yooper disagrees. I would listen to her more than myself.
I do know a guy in my home brew club that removes the sulfur notes from his cider by running CO2 into the bottom of his keg and degassing the cider (I think he said he uses sulfates). Supposedly this works for him.
I would not recommend trying to stop this fermentation.
potassium sorbate will only inhibit further yeast reproduction.
campden (pay extra and get potassium instead of sodium metabisulfite) will generally not stop it. I suppose if you were near the alcohol tolerance of the yeast, very nearly out of nutrients, at a low pH, and nearly out of fermentable sugars that it is possible that the yeast would stop a bit early. I would expect that more with a big mead due to the higher alcohol level and low nutrient level. Unless you added a lot of other sugars, you're likely nowhere near that alcohol tolerance. Inhibition of fermentation from campden is more accurate, but that is really for the start of fermentation. Once this process is rolling, stopping it is more than you can expect campden to accomplish.
I would take a gravity sample and determine what this sweetness level you like correlates to. I would then recommend further patience for the end of fermentation, multiple rackings, and stabilizing with the aforementioned two chemicals, and backsweetening to the previously enjoyed level. With the size of this batch that is going to end up being way easier, and just requires patience.
If you were absolutely determined to try to stop fermentation, you don't want the sulfite and sorbate in there during fermentation. You would need the ability to chill the batch. I'd rack, chill to the low 30's, and rack again after it is clear. Then I'd stabilize. I've done it with success. But with a small fraction of the volume you're talking about...
good luck...
--Michael
potassium sorbate will only inhibit further yeast reproduction.
campden (pay extra and get potassium instead of sodium metabisulfite) will generally not stop it. I suppose if you were near the alcohol tolerance of the yeast, very nearly out of nutrients, at a low pH, and nearly out of fermentable sugars that it is possible that the yeast would stop a bit early. I would expect that more with a big mead due to the higher alcohol level and low nutrient level. Unless you added a lot of other sugars, you're likely nowhere near that alcohol tolerance. Inhibition of fermentation from campden is more accurate, but that is really for the start of fermentation. Once this process is rolling, stopping it is more than you can expect campden to accomplish.
I would take a gravity sample and determine what this sweetness level you like correlates to. I would then recommend further patience for the end of fermentation, multiple rackings, and stabilizing with the aforementioned two chemicals, and backsweetening to the previously enjoyed level. With the size of this batch that is going to end up being way easier, and just requires patience.
If you were absolutely determined to try to stop fermentation, you don't want the sulfite and sorbate in there during fermentation. You would need the ability to chill the batch. I'd rack, chill to the low 30's, and rack again after it is clear. Then I'd stabilize. I've done it with success. But with a small fraction of the volume you're talking about...
good luck...
--Michael
jimbostarr
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Here is my latest recipe:
Fill the carboy with Muscleman’s Cider, pitch the yeast, stir and put a bubbler on it.
The yeast I am using Lalvin D47
After the bubbling stops (it could be just one month during the summertime – 3 in the winter), I kill the yeast with Potassium Metabisulfite (as per inst. on label). This is optional - see step one below.
For a 5 gal batch I flavor the finished cider as follows:
- 5 cups simple sugar (50% water and 50% sugar boiled). If you choose not to kill yeast after the fermentation stops, use Xylitol to sweeten.
- 1 tbsp. malic acid
- 4 tsp apple extract (I like Olive Nation brand)
- After the taste is just right let it sit another month- or you can bottle it. Age them for 6 months in a cool darkish place. (I put 2.5 gals into my soda keg and carbonated it).
It's still cloudy, but everyone loves it!
Well, potassium metabisulfite doesn't kill yeast, so there is that issue to deal with.
Otherwise, it's pretty regular cider. Looks good!
Otherwise, it's pretty regular cider. Looks good!
Rocksville
Well-Known Member
While I agree that an active fermentation is difficult to stop (like a freight train), I don't think a fermentation that has been grinding away for 7 months will put up a terrible fight.
I've had good results using a combination of sulfite and sorbate. Generally I'll rack off of the lees and add 1/4 tsp of each per gallon along with a fining agent (if necessary/desired). That being said, there are a few bugs that the sulfite/sorbate tandem won't inhibit (acetobacter for example), so it's not always a sure thing and keeping oxygen levels down will be important.
I've had good results using a combination of sulfite and sorbate. Generally I'll rack off of the lees and add 1/4 tsp of each per gallon along with a fining agent (if necessary/desired). That being said, there are a few bugs that the sulfite/sorbate tandem won't inhibit (acetobacter for example), so it's not always a sure thing and keeping oxygen levels down will be important.
I was responding to the above post, that said they "killed the yeast" after 1-3 months with k-meta.
Rocksville
Well-Known Member
I was more referencing your first post about stopping an active fermentation, and I wasn't trying to refute you as I agree on premise. I also wasn't going to argue the idea that k-meta kills yeast. I was just saying that with a fermentation that has been going for 7 months, there likely isn't a lot of really healthy active yeast left due to lack of nutrient and presence of alcohol. I think a dose of sulfite and sorbate together should stop whatever residual activity is going on in there pretty reliably.
If he was 10 days in it would be a different story.
If he was 10 days in it would be a different story.
Correct. Sorbate is used to inhibit the yeast reproducing, and so you won't get bottle bombs if done right. But sorbate can't distinguish between desired fermentation and not-desired fermentation. It's all or nothing.
It's easy to make a bottled sweet cider (non carbonated). and it's easy to make a carbonated dry cider. To make a sweet carbonated cider requires extraneous measures like like pasteurizing the bottles once carbonated appropriately.
