Stone Vertical Epic 05.05.05 Clone (Extract )Conversion request

[BrewStef]

As you know, Stone Brewing Co. provides homebrew recipes for their Vertical Epic Ales and Anniversary Ales.

As an extract brewer, I am still trying to get a handle on converting recipes from all grain to extract. Any help you could provide converting this to an 5 Gallon extract / steeping grains recipe would be much appreciated. I am particularly lost regarding the percentages.

Here is the ingredients list:
Pale 2-row malt:89.75%
Caramel 150L malt: 9%
Chocolate wheat: 1.25%
Amarillo hops at 8.2%aa at about .25 oz per gallon.
Clear Belgian candi sugar: 1.5 oz/gallon
#550 White Labs BelgianYeast
(you’re aiming for 20 Plato for your wort)

The full recipe/instructions can be found here:
http://www.stonebrew.com/epic/homebrew_recipe.php?ReleaseYear=2005

This is such a tasty belgian brew, I really want to do this one right with my limited equipment.

Cheers!

Brewstef

 

[Gabe]

I believe zymurgy just published this recipe in pounds and oz's, I think they give the extract altenatives as well. cheers good luck.

 

[BrewStef]

I just double checked on that. No, they did not include the 05.05.05 VE, just their Anniversary ales.

 

[mbreen01]

Well, just to see how close my calculations are:

Vertical Epic Ale Clone (5 gallons)

8.5 lbs light DME
1.3 lbs crystal 150L
3 oz chocolate
1/2 lb clear Belgian candi sugar
1.25 oz Amarillo hops @ 60 min
1 tsp Irish moss
White Labs #550

Steep grains in 1 gallon of water at 150*F for 30 minutes; sparge with 1/2 gallon water at 170*F. Bring to boil and add DME, candi sugar and hops. Boil for 45 min and add Irish moss. After 60 minutes, cool to below 80*F and pitch yeast. Ferment in primary 5-7 days and rack to secondary. Bottle when gravity hasn't changed over 3-4 days (~ in 2 weeks from rack to secondary). Bottle with 3/4 cup corn sugar.

Enjoy,
Marc.

NOTE: I edited amounts based on discussion in post #6 below. Originally I had Caramel 1# and Chocolate 2 oz.

 

[BrewStef]

Thanks Marc,

How did you calculate those amounts? The percentages differ from that in the all-grain recipe...or is that to make up for the difference in fermentables?

Cheers.

BrewStef

 

[mbreen01]

Hmm, now that I look over the recipe I see I didn't take into account the Belgian candi sugar contribution to final gravity. So, I'll edit the recipe above to reflect this. Does this vibe more with their suggestion?

Well to start with, 20 Plato = 1.083 SG; *5 gallons = 415 gravity units (83*5).
Belgian Candi sugar 0.47 lbs (1.5 oz/gal x 5 gallons) x 46 (extract potential 1.046) = 21.6 GU. So 415 - 21.6 = 393.4

Then using the grain bill:
2-row 0.8975 x 393.4 = 353 gravity units contribution
Caramel 0.09 x 393.4 = 35.4 GU
Chocolate 0.0125 x 393.4 = 4.9 GU

Then using, GU / extract potential per lb / efficiency = lbs needed:
2-row 353 / 45 (EP for DME) / 1 (100% efficiency w/ DME) = 7.84 lbs DME
Caramel 35.4 / 33 / 0.75 (based on 75% efficient mash) = 1.43 lbs
Chocolate 4.9 / 29 / 0.75 = 0.23 lbs

The problem that I run into with conversions, is that steeping grains doesn't really contribute fermentables. So it was always my understanding that you keep the specialty grains the same as the all-grain recipe and then calculate the amount of DME needed that will contribute the entire fermentable sugar. In that case, the recipe would look like this (with the specialty grains kept in proportion to original recipe, based on 14.5 lb total grain bill):
393.4 GU / 46 (EP per lb) / 1 (efficiency of DME) = 8.55 lbs light DME
Caramel = 1.3 lbs (14.5 lbs x 9%)
Chocolate = 0.18 lbs ~ 3 oz (14.5 x 1.25%)

The bottom line is that it is extremely hard to get an all-grain recipe exactly like an extract with steeped grains recipe. Also, the ingredient percentages aren't going to match up once you trade DME for 2-row grain (it isn't a 1:1 trade).

If anyone has other comments and suggestions, please share. I'm by all means no expert on this. Sorry for the mix-up...

Marc.

PS. BrewStef, what were their extract recipe ingredient amounts?