Starting all grain

[Jag75]

Hey all , I got a buddy of mine into brewing about a year ago. Hes done extract batches . I gave him a keg to convert to keggle . He wants to do all grain but he wanted it to be simple as possible so I suggested BIAB. My question is about sparging. Should he no sparge , dunk sparge or batch sparge ? I'm leaning no sparge but dunk sparge doesnt seem too hard and involved. When you figure out the water amount is it the same calculation for no sparge and dunk sparge ? I'm trying to keep this simple for him .

 

[RPh_Guy]

"No sparge" is definitely the easiest method, with the drawback of lower efficiency.

Since sparging increases efficiency, there is less grain needed to reach the target OG, and therefore less water will be lost to grain absorption.

 

[LittleRiver]

I would go no sparge. It's just so easy and effective, why unnecessarily complicate things for a beginner? The trick to making it work well is a fine grain crush. With a mill gap of .025" I can consistently hit or exceed recipe targets without modifying the recipe, in other words there are no issues with lower efficiency.

If he doesn't have access to a mill, BrewHardware.com sells grain with the option of fine milling it for BIAB.

 

[mongoose33]

If simple is what he wants, no-sparge is what he should do.

 

[RPh_Guy]

If he doesn't have access to a mill, BrewHardware.com sells grain with the option of fine milling it for BIAB.

It's surprising more shops don't offer this, with the prevalence of BIAB and how easy it is for beginners to all grain.

Maybe I should go into business.

 

[jamorgan3777]

Definitely no sparge. Keep in mind that many of the techniques that are used in all the different brew setups are more for absolute dial in. For instance, a couple % efficiency increase is equal to a few extra ounces of grain. The simplicity of no sparge would at most cost a few cents per batch.

 

[tellyho]

Ignorant about BIAB as I mash in a cooler, but I assumed it was no sparge by default. Is there really a way to sparge with a bag?

 

[Jag75]

Ignorant about BIAB as I mash in a cooler, but I assumed it was no sparge by default. Is there really a way to sparge with a bag?

Pouring water through the bag or dunk sparging as far as I know.

 

[Jag75]

Is calculating the total water for no sparge just grain total x .125?

 

[jamorgan3777]

Lots of ways. Some will section off some of the mash water and use it for sparge. I have never sparged and always hit my gravity now that I account for it. Remember that brewing is much more about consistency and knowing your system rather than trying to get maximum efficiency. For a big pro brewery it's different

 

[Leezer]

I’d also recommend Ritebrew for fine milled grain. I get all mine from them with the double crush option and do not sparge.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Is calculating the total water for no sparge just grain total x .125?

There's not an easy way to accurately calculate water requirements for the first batch. Each person's system/process has different water losses: grain absorption, boil off, and other losses (if applicable).

Once you dial in your system's losses after 1-2 batches, water requirement will still vary based on the amount of grain used in each recipe. This is where software/online calculators come in handy.

You can boil water before the first brew to get a feel for the boil-off rate. Boiling off 6-10% of the volume per hour is a good target -- a gentle simmer.

However, hitting the target volume or OG isn't all that critical for making beer, so it's not a big worry if your buddy is off target. If the volume into the fermenter is too low, there's always the option to top up with water.

Hope this helps.

 

[Jag75]

Yeah that's what I was trying to figure out the dead space at the bottom. I figured if we measure the amount that is under the ball valve then look at avg grain absorbtion and test the boil off I can get pretty close . Like you guys said he could always add a bit of water . From what I gather a 15 gallon keegle boils off 1 gallon per hour . We will do a test with water before . I've done a lot of brews on my Grainfather but never BIAB . So this is a first for both of us.

 

[RM-MN]

Yeah that's what I was trying to figure out the dead space at the bottom. I figured if we measure the amount that is under the ball valve then look at avg grain absorbtion and test the boil off I can get pretty close . Like you guys said he could always add a bit of water . From what I gather a 15 gallon keegle boils off 1 gallon per hour . We will do a test with water before . I've done a lot of brews on my Grainfather but never BIAB . So this is a first for both of us.

There doesn't need to be a dead space under the ball valve. If the bag is large enough it will extend into this space so that water is part of the mash. When draining the kettle, that last bit is not so heavy but one can lift the kettle and dump it out. That's how I handle my smaller batches anyway, just pick up the kettle and dump it.

 

[mongoose33]

Yeah that's what I was trying to figure out the dead space at the bottom. I figured if we measure the amount that is under the ball valve then look at avg grain absorbtion and test the boil off I can get pretty close . Like you guys said he could always add a bit of water . From what I gather a 15 gallon keegle boils off 1 gallon per hour . We will do a test with water before . I've done a lot of brews on my Grainfather but never BIAB . So this is a first for both of us.

I think you're being a little OCD here. Just do it.

Assuming the water is right, you could take anyone's amounts here and get reasonably close. When I did BIAB I typically used 7.25 gallons of water in the kettle, then doughed-in. If the grain bill got a bit larger or smaller, I didn't really care that much. A lot of people are hyper-focused on the exact grain-to-water ratio, but unless you're a professional brewer who needs to repeat recipes exactly, it doesn't matter.

Once the first one is done, adjust as necessary. But meanwhile, RDWHAHB.

 

[LittleRiver]

...Is there really a way to sparge with a bag?

Of course there is, it's easy:

• mash with 50% of the water
• drain the wort into a bucket, leaving the bag and grains in place
• add the second 50% of the water (cold or hot works equally well), stir thoroughly
• raise the bag, fire the heat for the boil, pour the bucket of wort into the kettle

Let the bag hang over the kettle during the entire boil. Gravity will fully drain it. There will be no need to squeeze it, and it'll be lightweight and cool when it comes time to dispose of the grains.

 

[wilserbrewer]

If he is looking for simple, I’d suggest he forego the keggle and find a 10 gallon kettle.

Besides saving the work of hacking off the top of the keg, bag removal is easier with a kettle rather than the small top opening of a keggle.

A 15.5 gallon keggle is a heavy beast for 5 gallon batches.

An unmolested keg has to be worth 50 bucks, a ten gallon kettle not much more.....

JMO on keggles, apologies to all who love them.

 

[balrog]

BIAB
@wilserbrewer bag
Priceless Calc, use defaults to start and adj absorb as needed for following batches
Lift and gravity drain over kettle while heating to boil
It's as easy as that.

 

[Jag75]

If he is looking for simple, I’d suggest he forego the keggle and find a 10 gallon kettle.

Besides saving the work of hacking off the top of the keg, bag removal is easier with a kettle rather than the small top opening of a keggle.

A 15.5 gallon keggle is a heavy beast for 5 gallon batches.

An unmolested keg has to be worth 50 bucks, a ten gallon kettle not much more.....

JMO on keggles, apologies to all who love them.

The keegle will allow 10 gallon batches also right ?

 

[wilserbrewer]

The keegle will allow 10 gallon batches also right ?

Maybe kinda sort of....a keggle or any 15 gallon pot is a tight squeeze for 10 gallon batches.

If 10 gallon batches are in the future, a 20 gallon pot will serve you well.

Sorry, I just feel starting a noob all grainier out w a keggle is a slight handicap, and he might have a better experience w/ a brew kettle.

There not that expensive unless you look at high end equipment.

Say a hundred bucks for a stainless 20 gal w lid.....
Jmo

 

[jamorgan3777]

Speaking from 10gal batch experience, I would second the 20gal pot "requirement". It would be tough to fit even modest gravity beers into a 15 gal kettle. Can be done, but make sure its level