Starting a little more advanced

[robbdmc]

Just starting out, but I want to build a system that I can grow with. Maybe start a nano brewery down the road.

I'm sure not everything will be transferable to a nano, but I'd rather spend $500 now, then throw $200 of startup kit stuff out.

What brewing and kegging systems/setups would you guys recommend?

Right now ease and efficiency are bigger concerns than output volume.

Thanks!

P.S. This is goin in the garage.

 

[501irishred]

There is a huge range when you use the Nano tag. Could be anything from a 10gal batch to well over a 100. It would be a little tough brewing a 5 or 10 gal batch in a system set up for a 120 max..........

 

[robbdmc]

There is a huge range when you use the Nano tag. Could be anything from a 10gal batch to well over a 100. It would be a little tough brewing a 5 or 10 gal batch in a system set up for a 120 max..........

Well lets just say as efficient as possible, but small. I want a setup that is more sophisticated than a starter kit, but not as big and expensive as a brew master by sabco.

I know it's still a big range, but just looking for suggestions if you were to start now.

 

[robbdmc]

Maybe it would be better to ask what the sweetest setup for sub $500 would be.

 

[501irishred]

A three keggle system would be a good place to start. It would be your choice how far you would like to go now (pumps/# of burners / automation, etc) or what you would upgrade later. 15 gal keggles would allow as much upgrade room as possible without going too extreme up front.

 

[robbdmc]

A three keggle system would be a good place to start. It would be your choice how far you would like to go now (pumps/# of burners / automation, etc) or what you would upgrade later. 15 gal keggles would allow as much upgrade room as possible without going too extreme up front.

That's what I'm thinkin.

Any links to some specific setups or equipment you would recommend?

 

[501irishred]

If you're a DIY kind of guy, definitely possible for sub 500.

 

[Barnesie]

Personally, it's much easier to divide everything by an over/under on $1500. My general feeling is that $1500 is about the rock bottom price for a reliable and easy to use grain-to-tap system. If you're not willing to spend at least $1500, then you're looking at cutting corners and doing a lot of DIY compromises. Doesn't mean you can't make great beer, just that you might be doing it with sub-optimal pieces and/or it could take a lot more labor and time.

The variety and range of those compromises is completely huge and spans this whole forum.

The problem is that your question is so incredibly vague that no one will really be able to give suitable advice to you. What does "just starting out" mean?

 

[501irishred]

Personally, it's much easier to divide everything by an over/under on $1500. My general feeling is that $1500 is about the rock bottom price for a reliable and easy to use grain-to-tap system. If you're not willing to spend at least $1500, then you're looking at cutting corners and doing a lot of DIY compromises. Doesn't mean you can't make great beer, just that you might be doing it with sub-optimal pieces and/or it could take a lot more labor and time.

The variety and range of those compromises is completely huge and spans this whole forum.

The problem is that your question is so incredibly vague that no one will really be able to give suitable advice to you. What does "just starting out" mean?

True enough, but that doesn't mean you can't begin with less than an ideal system that has the potential of being upgraded without "backtracking" on previous purchases. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think that's what the OP is trying to avoid, and I commend him for think ahead (wish I had).

 

[Barnesie]

True enough, but that doesn't mean you can't begin with less than an ideal system that has the potential of being upgraded without "backtracking" on previous purchases. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think that's what the OP is trying to avoid, and I commend him for think ahead (wish I had).

I completely agree, but the difficult part is knowing where to spend your money so that your compromises suit you. Without knowing what type of brewer he is, it's hard to give that advice. It's also obvious that many tools of brewing are "optional" enhancements that are highly personal choices.

Some compromises will have to be "Backtracked" as you say, there's just no way around it. You can't make a pot bigger and you can't turn a cooler into a direct fire vessel.

That being said, we are in a time where there are three legitimate methods of making beer - extract, BIAB and traditional mash. They each have different equipment requirements but they each can grow into another method. If a person is "just starting out" with extract, they're in a different place then if they're "just starting out" with BIAB or full-mash.

More info is needed.

 

[robbdmc]

True enough, but that doesn't mean you can't begin with less than an ideal system that has the potential of being upgraded without "backtracking" on previous purchases. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think that's what the OP is trying to avoid, and I commend him for think ahead (wish I had).

You nailed it!!!

I don't mean to be so vague, but its hard to say exactly what I'm looking for b/c I'm looking for recommendations based on your experiences.

I've never brewed before and I'm not looking to waste commodities by screwing up huge batches, but at the same time I'm not afraid to jump a little ahead on the equipment.

 

[Barnesie]

If you've never brewed before, I'd look at doing BIAB. Actually, first I'd find someone that brews and spend a few brew sessions with them.

I've never done brew-in-a-bag, but I find it very interesting and I wish that I would have started with BIAB and skipped extract brewing. I also wouldn't scoff at any of the online homebrew shop 1 gallon kits.

I think some things are worth starting small with, and if you've never brewed at all it might be worth it to get 5-10 1 gallon batches under your belt before you make decisions on large dollar purchases.

 

[robbdmc]

I completely agree, but the difficult part is knowing where to spend your money so that your compromises suit you. Without knowing what type of brewer he is, it's hard to give that advice. It's also obvious that many tools of brewing are "optional" enhancements that are highly personal choices.

Some compromises will have to be "Backtracked" as you say, there's just no way around it. You can't make a pot bigger and you can't turn a cooler into a direct fire vessel.

That being said, we are in a time where there are three legitimate methods of making beer - extract, BIAB and traditional mash. They each have different equipment requirements but they each can grow into another method. If a person is "just starting out" with extract, they're in a different place then if they're "just starting out" with BIAB or full-mash.

More info is needed.

Definitely see what your sayin'. If I wanted to go fully custom nano one day, which would you start with?

 

[robbdmc]

If you've never brewed before, I'd look at doing BIAB. Actually, first I'd find someone that brews and spend a few brew sessions with them.

I've never done brew-in-a-bag, but I find it very interesting and I wish that I would have started with BIAB and skipped extract brewing. I also wouldn't scoff at any of the online homebrew shop 1 gallon kits.

I think some things are worth starting small with, and if you've never brewed at all it might be worth it to get 5-10 1 gallon batches under your belt before you make decisions on large dollar purchases.

Well can't I make 1 gallon batches in slightly better systems without spending tons? Just looking for some examples.

Like I know what you mean about figuring it out as you go, but at the same time I don't want to buy buckets and stuff that I will upgrade after a week. And I don't want to screw around bottling if I already know kegging is more efficient.

 

[AnOldUR]

I've never brewed before . . .

Brewing is very labor intense regardless of the scale. There are two reasons to homebrew. First is that you really enjoy the entire process. Second is that you want to impress your friends. If you're leaning more toward the second, it'll probably get old real fast.

I'd suggest getting a cheap starter kit and get a few batches under your belt and see if it's a hobby you want to stick with. Even if your thoughts are to go pro, unless you plan to hire someone to do the work, you better find out what you’re in for before investing more than a hundred bucks or so.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Maybe it would be better to ask what the sweetest setup for sub $500 would be.

Kinda depends how much work you want to do. I know guys who have awesome AG setups for under 500 bucks. One got his hands on a decommisioned keg from a distributor and made that his kettle for free then did his own work on turning 2 old gatorade coolers from a local high school, and converted them into his mash and lauter tuns. Then just a matter of getting his kegs and carboys.

 

[robbdmc]

Kinda depends how much work you want to do. I know guys who have awesome AG setups for under 500 bucks. One got his hands on a decommisioned keg from a distributor and made that his kettle for free then did his own work on turning 2 old gatorade coolers from a local high school, and converted them into his mash and lauter tuns. Then just a matter of getting his kegs and carboys.

Cool. Any links or pics of his setup? Thx

 

[rklinck]

I tend to agree with AnOldUR on this one. It is hard to suggest a set up that could costs you thousands before you have even brewed a single beer. I think the best bet is to buy a basic kit like the one he suggested. Even if you quickly decide you like the hobby and want to get more advanced, you will still use the vast majority of the things included in that kit for the foreseeable future.

 

[rklinck]

Kinda depends how much work you want to do. I know guys who have awesome AG setups for under 500 bucks. One got his hands on a decommisioned keg from a distributor and made that his kettle for free then did his own work on turning 2 old gatorade coolers from a local high school, and converted them into his mash and lauter tuns. Then just a matter of getting his kegs and carboys.

And a wort chiller, and a propane burner, and a funnel, and then, and then, and then. . . .

 

[501irishred]

I like Barnesie suggestion of sitting in with an experienced brewer for a couple sessions before you make your initial decisions on set up. Do you know if there is a brew club near you? If so, invest your first dollars in a membership! You could very easily find people with vastly different setups that wold be happy to let you see how "they" do it.

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

And a wort chiller, and a propane burner, and a funnel, and then, and then, and then. . . .

Haah isn't that always the case? Start out with a nice 70-100 dollar kit, and a cheap kettle you use on your stove or an old turkey fryer someone in your family owned, then you find yourself with more airlocks than you know what to do and multiple fermenters.

 

[RuffRider]

I'd suggest getting a cheap starter kit and get a few batches under your belt and see if it's a hobby you want to stick with. Even if your thoughts are to go pro, unless you plan to hire someone to do the work, you better find out what you’re in for before investing more than a hundred bucks or so.

I couldn't agree with this advice more. I know you're concerned about wasting money on your initial investment because of future upgrades, but in my opinion, you should be more concerned about wasting money because you find brewing is not what you thought it would be and it doesn't interest you. I take advantage of those people on craigslist when they sell brand new equipment because they find they're just not that into brewing after all.

Having said that, I started when my wife bought me a $50 Mr. Beer kit for Christmas. Two things happened real quick:
1. I realized Mr. Beer kits weren't enough for me and I wanted to do more with my brewing.
2. I became OBSESSED with brewing. I love it to the very core of my being. And, I haven't wasted a dime (not even on the Mr. Beer kit).

That's just my opinion. I wish obsession upon you because brewing beer is freakin' awesome! :rockin: But, it's not for everybody.

 

[NewJersey]

good thread. i just started brewing and would have to disagree with some of the advice given. i did my first brew at the lhbs and bought all the stuff to turn a spare fridge of mine into a kegerator. cornykegs, aluminum c02 tanks, regulator, fitting, lines, etc. bunch of money spent.
took home my beer in a keg a couple weeks later and enjoyed it. it was just a sierra nevada pale ale clone. it was decent.
im am SO GLAD i never messed around with bottling.
well as i had corney kegs i knew how big of a batch i could make and that dictated my equipment.
i opted to get a bayou burner meant fr deep frying turkey
i bought two big pots. one with a screen in the bottom, spigot, and temp gauge built in- the other just a big pot for my boil.
then i realized i would really need a copper coil to cool down the boil. and i bought a lil air pump kit for aeration.
that plus all the other lil things needed (large spoon to mix, pump for transfer, bucket for primary, 6.5 glass carboy for secondary) brought me to about $1k give or take
im gonna do my fifth brew this saturday, but all have gone fine me for so far and i never bothered with any kits or 1 gallon batches
i did read the two books my lhbs guru recommended before i ever brewed a drop.
either im a genius or its just not that hard. (i'm not a genius. average joe status)
if youre comfortable with the process in your head then you will have no problem in practice. imo

my only issue has been regulating the temps of my primary fermentation. though all my beers gravity has been pretty on thus far

good luck everybody!

 

[rklinck]

Haah isn't that always the case? Start out with a nice 70-100 dollar kit, and a cheap kettle you use on your stove or an old turkey fryer someone in your family owned, then you find yourself with more airlocks than you know what to do and multiple fermenters.

Exactly. That's why the initial starter kit is not a waste. If you end up liking it, you will keep use the majority of the starter kit. I have four fermenters, a kegging system, a turkey fryer, and two pots. I keep using all of it except maybe the original racking cane now that I have an auto siphon.

 

[rklinck]

good thread. i just started brewing and would have to disagree with some of the advice given. i did my first brew at the lhbs and bought all the stuff to turn a spare fridge of mine into a kegerator. cornykegs, aluminum c02 tanks, regulator, fitting, lines, etc. bunch of money spent.
took home my beer in a keg a couple weeks later and enjoyed it. it was just a sierra nevada pale ale clone. it was decent.
im am SO GLAD i never messed around with bottling.
well as i had corney kegs i knew how big of a batch i could make and that dictated my equipment.
i opted to get a bayou burner meant fr deep frying turkey
i bought two big pots. one with a screen in the bottom, spigot, and temp gauge built in- the other just a big pot for my boil.
then i realized i would really need a copper coil to cool down the boil. and i bought a lil air pump kit for aeration.
that plus all the other lil things needed (large spoon to mix, pump for transfer, bucket for primary, 6.5 glass carboy for secondary) brought me to about $1k give or take
im gonna do my fifth brew this saturday, but all have gone fine me for so far and i never bothered with any kits or 1 gallon batches
i did read the two books my lhbs guru recommended before i ever brewed a drop.
either im a genius or its just not that hard. (i'm not a genius. average joe status)
if youre comfortable with the process in your head then you will have no problem in practice. imo

my only issue has been regulating the temps of my primary fermentation. though all my beers gravity has been pretty on thus far

good luck everybody!

I don't see you disagreeing with much that has been said. We are not saying that he can't buy a lot of equipment fast -- I certainly have. The point is simply that he ought to buy a basic starter equipment kit for $60 because he will keep using the vast majority of that equipment anyway.

As for your suggestion that bottling equipment is a waste, I tend to disagree. I keg and love having beer on tap but only have so much room to keep kegs cold. My plan is to keep my staple beers (pale ale, irish red, stout, kolsch) in kegs and bottle other brews that will be more occasional drinks (e.g., strong belgian ales, IPAs). Even though I am not bottling with regularity now, I have found myriad uses for my bottling bucket, including using it as a storage space for star san mixture.

 

[swackattack]

Id get a starter kit and a 15 gallon kettle and a bkichmann burner. That allows some easy growth as the top tier system will use the burner and allows for easy integration for automation etc. Im a non diy guy so some of the blichmann products work nice together and allow for future growth

 

[BBL_Brewer]

You need to get your feet wet before you even start to entertain the idea of going pro (Nano). There's a million ways to skin this cat, and rushing into it will probably only hinder your progress. I recommend getting a 9 or 10 gallon boil kettle, a descent starter kit, a wort chiller, and a burner of some kind. This will allow you to brew extract and all grain BIAB with ease. You could upgrade that by adding a cooler mash tun down the road. You'll have minimal money invested this way and even if you upgrade to a larger system later, most (if not all) of this euipment will still be useful to have. If not, you can always sell it. Once you get some experience under your belt, you'll be much more capable of deciding where you want to go as a brewer and how to make that happen equipment wise.

 

[Barnesie]

Ok, one more opinion can't hurt right?

http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_33_52&products_id=13440

Everyone here tends to clown on 1 gallon batches because it's the same labor as a 5 gallon batch, but I think if you're learning you want to be spending more time brewing than drinking. 1 gallon brewing is a great place to start, and you can be up and running with your first kit for about $45 with each additional kit at $11 or so.

I'm of the opinion that you can learn how to brew beer or you can learn how your equipment brews beer but you can't easily do both at the same time. Starting small and simple allows you to focus on the beer part before you need to worry about the equipment part.

EDIT - Northern brewer's kit as an alternative: http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/1-gallon-small-batch-starter-kit-1.html

 

[robbdmc]

This thread is really helpful! Thx to everyone participating!

After reading everyone's comments, I think I'm going to start with a 3 tiered gravity brewing system, all grain brewing, and a corney kegs in a kegerator.

Sounds like all of this can be done relatively inexpensivley, and can neatly brew anywhere between 5 and 15 gal.

Great article if anyone is interested... http://morebeer.com/brewingtechniques/library/backissues/issue2.2/caplan.html

Anyone have any pics or links with how to's for this type of setup?

I'm also going to start reading "how to brew" by John Palmer. Consensus seems to be that it's the best.

No disrespect to anyone, I just want to do it right, asap. Not saying starter kits aren't great for most. Thx again!

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Exactly. That's why the initial starter kit is not a waste. If you end up liking it, you will keep use the majority of the starter kit. I have four fermenters, a kegging system, a turkey fryer, and two pots. I keep using all of it except maybe the original racking cane now that I have an auto siphon.

I coudl recommend throwing another 30 bucks or so to get the stepped up version of a kit like the Brewing Starter Kit from Midwest Supplies, the Complete Brew Kit from Love2Brew, for 100 bucks you get the Autosiphon, you get a carboy, so you're already set for more than you'd really need from the get go but enough to last you likely a few brews before the itch to get more happens.