NoIguanaForZ
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Is there such a thing?
"Standard" Beers Every Brewery Should Have
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madscientist451
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Yes there are standard beers breweries keep on tap. But it depends on what kind of "brewery" you are talking about.
A shed next to your swimming pool where all your buddies and their families come over for parties and hang out? Just ask everyone what they like.
A brew pub that does 1/2 or more of their dollar volume through food sales? You would probably need a lager, a light ale, a stout or porter and an IPA.
A beer bar where beer nerds congregate? You need something new on tap every week to keep customers coming in and 12 or more taps. Add to the above list a czech pilsner, or Kolsch, Imperial IPA and Imperial Stout, Several IPAs, Low alcohol "session" beers, a wheat beer, a fruit beer, Belgians, Saisons and barrel aged sour beers, basically something for everyone.
A shed next to your swimming pool where all your buddies and their families come over for parties and hang out? Just ask everyone what they like.
A brew pub that does 1/2 or more of their dollar volume through food sales? You would probably need a lager, a light ale, a stout or porter and an IPA.
A beer bar where beer nerds congregate? You need something new on tap every week to keep customers coming in and 12 or more taps. Add to the above list a czech pilsner, or Kolsch, Imperial IPA and Imperial Stout, Several IPAs, Low alcohol "session" beers, a wheat beer, a fruit beer, Belgians, Saisons and barrel aged sour beers, basically something for everyone.
No. I am much more inclined to check out a brewery if they have a focus (British, Belgian, lagers, barrels, sours). Every time a new brewery opens up and announce their line up of IPA/porter/pils/Belgian, I'm disappointed even before I try the beers.
I kinda agree with @tagz
Any brewery I see that opens with:
- pale ale
- wheat beer
- stout/porter
- IPA (usually a boring one with the IBUs, but barely any hop punch)
I am much less inclined to check out. Although they do seem to be the "cover all your bases" standards, to me, it just screams "we lack creativity and passion".
Plus, no saison??? there's something wrong with that place...if they were really trying to cover all their bases they'd include the style that is almost the missing link between wine and beer
Any brewery I see that opens with:
- pale ale
- wheat beer
- stout/porter
- IPA (usually a boring one with the IBUs, but barely any hop punch)
I am much less inclined to check out. Although they do seem to be the "cover all your bases" standards, to me, it just screams "we lack creativity and passion".
Plus, no saison??? there's something wrong with that place...if they were really trying to cover all their bases they'd include the style that is almost the missing link between wine and beer
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I wish every brewery would have a good, thick, chocolatey stout.
That way, my wife would be guaranteed to have a beer she can enjoy while I drag her around to breweries and do flights of everything.
Other than that, I don't really care... wish the IPAs would go on hiatus for a while, though. So damn sick of them taking up so much space.
That way, my wife would be guaranteed to have a beer she can enjoy while I drag her around to breweries and do flights of everything.
Other than that, I don't really care... wish the IPAs would go on hiatus for a while, though. So damn sick of them taking up so much space.
NoIguanaForZ
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Err, I'm asking if people perceive there to be a certain minimum selection. I agree that the maximum is undefined.
Would rather a brewery have a theme even if it's something as common as "lots of American hops!"
Here in Korea so many breweries open with a really basic line-up of California-style beers without too much thought about having a unique style or about the Korean market.
Here in Korea so many breweries open with a really basic line-up of California-style beers without too much thought about having a unique style or about the Korean market.
While I get what some people are saying about not being excited about the "generic lineup" of beers, I'm also a pragmatist. Sure you want to CATER to your true beer loving audience but you also have to have SOMETHING for the friends they bring along. And btw, your generic offerings can still be stellar if you care.
In NY you need to have at least an IPA, a Stout/Porter, and a Lager/Kolsch/Cream/"Pilsner" [Pale Ale/Light Lager], plus something seasonal. Right now a wheat/saison/gose/fruit beer of some kind. I don't think having 4 beer styles dialed in is too much to ask, personally. And if you can't manage it, that's what guest taps are for.
In NY you need to have at least an IPA, a Stout/Porter, and a Lager/Kolsch/Cream/"Pilsner" [Pale Ale/Light Lager], plus something seasonal. Right now a wheat/saison/gose/fruit beer of some kind. I don't think having 4 beer styles dialed in is too much to ask, personally. And if you can't manage it, that's what guest taps are for.
I think there are at minimum a few styles that should be represented. There definitely needs to be a good lager, or at the bare minimum a Kolsch or some kind of blonde ale to keep the yellow beer drinkers happy or when you want something light. Also you'd be foolish not to have an IPA or two on tap considering it's probably the most popular style right now. I guess you're going to need something brown on tap too. Maybe a an oatmeal stout, or something along those lines. Also maybe something imperial, either an IPA or a RIS. But I guess you really can't brew EVERY style so you have to keep with the most popular basic styles so you can appeal to as many people as possible.
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Yes. Every brewery should have ales and or lagers as a standard.
mrdauber64
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In my opinion every brewery should have a good Pale Ale. Brewing a good pale ale tells me that the brewery knows how to balance the malt and hops so their light offering(cream ale, blonde...) and IPA should both be good. It is a good in-between offering for those that like hoppy beer but want to have more than 1 and still be able to drive.
Thats unfortunate because I've seen what happens when you try to start something with a focus like that. You don't sell enough beer. My friend opened a nano and had that mentality at first. He generally doesn't like IPAs and most crazy beers. He likes traditional stuff, mostly German, so thats what he focused on. After watching enough customers ask for something hoppy only to turn and leave the point became clear. Passion and creativity only accounts for so much, you need to brew what people want. He let me add in an APA and its been one of the top sellers in the lineup ever since.
My point is the number of successful breweries that pick a focus and brew only what they want are few and far between. You've got to be in the right place with the right customer base for it to work. On the other hand you can give the people what they want and try to work other things in around a core lineup of beers that you know will pay the bills. At the end of the day its about what makes sense for the business.
I know this doesn't always satisfy us beer nerds but its worth keeping in mind
Brewmasher
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If you are talking "brewery" in terms of a commercial craft beer producer, they should have 1 standard style of beer that is their flagship, be it Belgian ales, pale ales, stouts and porters, whatever. Maybe a couple spin offs of their standard, and a rotating seasonal.
A brew pub however IMO should always have
- a lager or light ale for the Bud, Miller, Coors drinkers
- an ESB or ordinary bitter
- a hop monster IPA
- a phenolic hefeweizen or belgian ale
- a stout or porter
- a fruit or soda pop beer so you can invite someone that does not like beer
That leaves a lot of room to seasonally rotate versions of the standards, and still have a few taps open for something different.
A brew pub however IMO should always have
- a lager or light ale for the Bud, Miller, Coors drinkers
- an ESB or ordinary bitter
- a hop monster IPA
- a phenolic hefeweizen or belgian ale
- a stout or porter
- a fruit or soda pop beer so you can invite someone that does not like beer
That leaves a lot of room to seasonally rotate versions of the standards, and still have a few taps open for something different.
ericbw
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Yes.
There has to be something to appeal to everyone, unless it is focused on one thing (Belgians, for instance).
I think in categories. Maybe its adjusted seasonally depending on how many taps there are. If you have 6 taps, maybe in the summer it's a few light ones and a wheat, along with ambers and saison. In the winter, more amber, red, belgian, etc.
blonde/light yellow/cream ale
amber, brown, red, APA
porter and stout
lagers - light yellow, etc.
Wheat - american, hefe, wit
Special - belgian, saison, fruit
IPA - because the people want it
There has to be something to appeal to everyone, unless it is focused on one thing (Belgians, for instance).
I think in categories. Maybe its adjusted seasonally depending on how many taps there are. If you have 6 taps, maybe in the summer it's a few light ones and a wheat, along with ambers and saison. In the winter, more amber, red, belgian, etc.
blonde/light yellow/cream ale
amber, brown, red, APA
porter and stout
lagers - light yellow, etc.
Wheat - american, hefe, wit
Special - belgian, saison, fruit
IPA - because the people want it
Nomofett
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I feel exactly the opposite, I'm more leery of a brewery without those beers. A lot of places just try to be gimmicky and don't know the fundamentals. I want to know that they know how to make the basics first. Plus, I want to know there's a fall back beer if I don't like their particular experiments. There's a reason certain styles have lasted hundreds of years. Plus sure, a lot of places can make a funky fun beer that's fun to drink, but it takes a true artist to make an IPA that really sticks out. True depth is found in the simple common things.
NoIguanaForZ
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Hmm. So it sounds like "something light-colored and unthreatening" and "something hoppy" are pretty non-negotiable for viability. But that gives a lot of room for other taps...
ericbw
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That's about it. Have to have something with mass appeal, and you have to have something with hop appeal. Those are probably the biggest "groups" of beer nerds.
worlddivides
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Not really. I've found most of the good breweries focus on a specific style, however broad that may be. This brewery focuses on IPAs and pale ales, this brewery focuses on lagers, this brewery focuses on sours, this brewery focuses on British-style ales, this brewery focuses on Belgian-style ales, and so on. Now, of course, you can have great breweries that start with one focus, then add another. For example, maybe they start out with super hoppy ales (APAs, IPAs, IPLs, etc.) and then they add a new focus of barrel-aged sour beers. No matter what kind of brewery it is, though, they have to have their main beer have mass appeal -- at least among craft beer drinkers (even if most "casual" beer drinkers don't see the appeal).
But there is no "standard" beer that every brewery must have. I mean, I personally think of "Pilsner" as the essential beer, but most craft breweries don't have one and, even though I've been brewing for several years now, I've never brewed a Pilsner (or a lager). I'll probably brew one somewhere down the line, but I personally prefer more experimental brews when I'm making them myself from scratch (or brews that are a lot more difficult to find or that are extremely expensive to buy, so it's just cheaper to make yourself).
But there is no "standard" beer that every brewery must have. I mean, I personally think of "Pilsner" as the essential beer, but most craft breweries don't have one and, even though I've been brewing for several years now, I've never brewed a Pilsner (or a lager). I'll probably brew one somewhere down the line, but I personally prefer more experimental brews when I'm making them myself from scratch (or brews that are a lot more difficult to find or that are extremely expensive to buy, so it's just cheaper to make yourself).
henchman24
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I tend to prefer breweries that have a focus (saison, brett/wild/sour, and hoppy are what I typically drift towards), but even most of those tend to serve some the standard APA/IPA/Stout/Wheat/Amber.
I can see in a lot of ways the local market determines this (specifically the level of saturation). On the front range of Colorado there are so many breweries, that many are just trying to carve out their niche. So you see barrel aged, sour/brett, saison, hoppy, Belgian etc focused breweries succeed at least partially due to that focus. Some even focus based on the person they want to bring in (Trve and Black Sky are standard bearers for that). Just 10 miles into Wyoming along the front range (Cheyenne), a brewery couldn't survive without the standard beers.
I can see in a lot of ways the local market determines this (specifically the level of saturation). On the front range of Colorado there are so many breweries, that many are just trying to carve out their niche. So you see barrel aged, sour/brett, saison, hoppy, Belgian etc focused breweries succeed at least partially due to that focus. Some even focus based on the person they want to bring in (Trve and Black Sky are standard bearers for that). Just 10 miles into Wyoming along the front range (Cheyenne), a brewery couldn't survive without the standard beers.
I don't see why you can't have a focus AND offer something with mass appeal. Stone is a good example. They defined themselves as an over the top [for the time] hop beer brewery. Yet, they have still always offered a stout, a wit, and a pale ale.
Personally, I would get palate fatigue drinking a flight of IPA's or sour beers. Not to mention bored. We have a beer place called The Merry Monk that is dedicated to Belgian beers exclusively [and Belgian food]. The beers are obviously good [standards like Chimay, Leffe, Duvel, Orval, etc] because they hand pick some of the best available world class Belgian beers. And STILL I can only go a couple of times a year because I'm bored... I've had all that stuff already.
Personally, I would get palate fatigue drinking a flight of IPA's or sour beers. Not to mention bored. We have a beer place called The Merry Monk that is dedicated to Belgian beers exclusively [and Belgian food]. The beers are obviously good [standards like Chimay, Leffe, Duvel, Orval, etc] because they hand pick some of the best available world class Belgian beers. And STILL I can only go a couple of times a year because I'm bored... I've had all that stuff already.
Don't really think you need a light lager or something that tastes like a light lager to appeal to non craft brew fans. There's plenty of beers they like, it's just IPAs and roasty stouts can be a lot to swallow for people who're used to light lager. Stuff I've found that works well:
-Malty pales ales with low IBUs a big hopstand/dryhop.
-Milds, especially (at least for me) with cleaner yeast than is traditional. Having a lot of the flavor from the dark crystal without being sweet works well.
-Brown ales, if you watch out to not make them cloying. What I've been enjoying is my brown ale that went really heavy on carabrown malt. Despite its misleading name carabrown is a light brown malt rather than a crystal malt. Gives a pleasant toasted malty flavor without any bitterness or astringency, great for people who think even Guiness tastes like ash without being boring.
Just steer them to the sampler option on the menu, if you're put together a good menu there's probably SOMETHING they'll enjoy.
As for the hopheads, yeah there are people who won't be happy without a hop bomb but I find that if you go nuts on the late additions they'll be happy with something that isn't especially bitter since most care far more about hop presence than straight-up IBUs so it's not impossible to make a beer that both hopheads and newbies will enjoy. I love crazy bitter beers myself but I'm not going to turn my nose up at any beer that smells like sticking my head in a bag of hops.
I'm just going to be far far far more interested in a beer line-up that has a theme than the standard line-up as I'm going to be far more interested in trying an IPA from people who are obviously obsessed with hops than someone who's making an IPA to check off a box.
-Malty pales ales with low IBUs a big hopstand/dryhop.
-Milds, especially (at least for me) with cleaner yeast than is traditional. Having a lot of the flavor from the dark crystal without being sweet works well.
-Brown ales, if you watch out to not make them cloying. What I've been enjoying is my brown ale that went really heavy on carabrown malt. Despite its misleading name carabrown is a light brown malt rather than a crystal malt. Gives a pleasant toasted malty flavor without any bitterness or astringency, great for people who think even Guiness tastes like ash without being boring.
Just steer them to the sampler option on the menu, if you're put together a good menu there's probably SOMETHING they'll enjoy.
As for the hopheads, yeah there are people who won't be happy without a hop bomb but I find that if you go nuts on the late additions they'll be happy with something that isn't especially bitter since most care far more about hop presence than straight-up IBUs so it's not impossible to make a beer that both hopheads and newbies will enjoy. I love crazy bitter beers myself but I'm not going to turn my nose up at any beer that smells like sticking my head in a bag of hops.
I'm just going to be far far far more interested in a beer line-up that has a theme than the standard line-up as I'm going to be far more interested in trying an IPA from people who are obviously obsessed with hops than someone who's making an IPA to check off a box.
MaryB
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What I would like to see is a lawnmower style but with lots of flavor from the malt, hops, and yeast combined. Not the typical here its a low alcohol beer we waved some hops past and didn't really care about aroma, body, or flavor...
NoIguanaForZ
Well-Known Member
I thought light flavor and body were part of the "Lawnmower" spec.
Yeah but you can make pretty flavorful beer without much alcohol, esters, SRM, IBUs or points of FG. Just use some attenuative yeast and some brown malt or dark crystal or something and then maybe some dry hops.
I think in those cases, why not just serve Bud? If that's what people want just sell it to them instead of taking up your fermenters with stuff that the Bud people won't like as much as Bud.
ThatVideoKid
Well-Known Member
I'm always interested in a brewery with a focus. If I were to open a brewery/pub it would be Belgian. Now even with that focus, you can offer a lot for even the not Belgian beer drinkers. Give the IPA guys a Belgian IPA or a dry-hopped saison. For the light guys who got dragged along, maybe they could try a light version of a Belgian golden that is fairly light but with some light fun esters/phenols.
Oh and any brewery that doesn't have a stout in #stoutseason is doing it wrong. Though I prefer that the season lasts for 365 days. Taking one day off every 4 years.
Oh and any brewery that doesn't have a stout in #stoutseason is doing it wrong. Though I prefer that the season lasts for 365 days. Taking one day off every 4 years.
BentBrewer
Well-Known Member
Here in California at least, to have 'guest' beers, one has to have a different license. To have said different license, one has to serve food. That adds at least $100K to the cost, and cuts down on room for fermenters.
So needless to say, some brewpubs are going to brew something lighter. They stay within license, and turn a better profit than paying for a barrel of Bud.
NoIguanaForZ
Well-Known Member
So having given it a bit more thought, over the next couple years I'm planning to perfect recipewise, dial in processwise, and work out a schedule that keeps a few bottles on hand at all times, the following:
-American Porter (flagship)
-Kolsch-inspired Blonde
-Brown IPA
-Dark Saison
-Scottish Export 80
-Dunkleweizen
-Schwarzbier-California Common hybrid
Has range, has a theme, I'm feeling pretty good about this...
The step after that will be to build up the range for 2-3 "seasonal" taps, one of which will probably be a "seasonal stout" tap...
-American Porter (flagship)
-Kolsch-inspired Blonde
-Brown IPA
-Dark Saison
-Scottish Export 80
-Dunkleweizen
-Schwarzbier-California Common hybrid
Has range, has a theme, I'm feeling pretty good about this...
The step after that will be to build up the range for 2-3 "seasonal" taps, one of which will probably be a "seasonal stout" tap...
Nomofett
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In my area (Portland) a well respected, quality brewery is going out of business soon. It surprised a lot of people so there's been a lot of talk about what happened. In this article they talk a little about styles and how they didn't give the local market (not the city, but that area of the city) what they wanted.
http://www.wweek.com/bars/beer/2017...-commons-announced-its-closing-what-happened/
So pay of the answer of what should be on tap is what do the people in your area specifically want. If this is for a business (I'm assuming it is) you gotta separate what should be on tap (what will sell) vs what can be on tap (what you want to make)
Just my 2¢
http://www.wweek.com/bars/beer/2017...-commons-announced-its-closing-what-happened/
So pay of the answer of what should be on tap is what do the people in your area specifically want. If this is for a business (I'm assuming it is) you gotta separate what should be on tap (what will sell) vs what can be on tap (what you want to make)
Just my 2¢
SoCal-Doug
Well-Known Member
Something OTHER than IPA's and a stout. The latest fad is to not call them IPA's. They make up "cool" names that insinuate "the 200 IBU's in this crap will melt your esophagus" and the hipsters rush in glassy-eyed and drooling.
Yeah yeah. I know. If you don't follow the trends and fill the demands, you are doomed. It's just frustrating.
Yeah yeah. I know. If you don't follow the trends and fill the demands, you are doomed. It's just frustrating.
SoCal-Doug
Well-Known Member
In my area, most taps are ipa's (or anything else they can grossly over-hop). If you go at the right time, there might be a stout or porter which is probably also 70 or more IBU.
There is a brewhouse in Norco California that, i'm not even kidding, you can smell the hops before you get to the front door. I had a friend recommend something there so I tried it. Holy hell I couldn't breathe and my mouth went numb for a few minutes. This stuff could knock a buzzard off of a crap wagon. I'm ok with IPA's (Goose Island IMO is very good), but does every tap need a flammability warning and include a pack of tums?
To be fair, there's a place in Riverside that occasionally makes a pretty good Saison (Wicks I think), and a BBQ joint in Norco that does a good Irish Red, but the rest of his taps are Coors, PBR, and lighter commercial stuff.
There is a brewhouse in Norco California that, i'm not even kidding, you can smell the hops before you get to the front door. I had a friend recommend something there so I tried it. Holy hell I couldn't breathe and my mouth went numb for a few minutes. This stuff could knock a buzzard off of a crap wagon. I'm ok with IPA's (Goose Island IMO is very good), but does every tap need a flammability warning and include a pack of tums?
To be fair, there's a place in Riverside that occasionally makes a pretty good Saison (Wicks I think), and a BBQ joint in Norco that does a good Irish Red, but the rest of his taps are Coors, PBR, and lighter commercial stuff.
NoIguanaForZ
Well-Known Member
Though, damnit, I'm gonna need 6 different yeast strains for it. Hmm.
thehaze
Well-Known Member
Belgian beers: Saison/Farmhouse/Biere de Garde, Belgian Tripel/Golden/Pale Ale and a big Belgian Dark Strong Ale.
Dark beers: Stout or RIS, (oatmeal) Porter and must have an Imperial Baltic Porter, Black IPA
HEFEWEIZEN for the long, hot summer!
Pissy beers: maybe a Pilsner and / or a Kolsch for those looking for a cheap, " commercial " like beer
IPAs: But as someone pointed out, they usually botch these quite good.
Dark beers: Stout or RIS, (oatmeal) Porter and must have an Imperial Baltic Porter, Black IPA
HEFEWEIZEN for the long, hot summer!
Pissy beers: maybe a Pilsner and / or a Kolsch for those looking for a cheap, " commercial " like beer
IPAs: But as someone pointed out, they usually botch these quite good.
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