stainless steel mash tun

[simie]

Greetings Brewers,
Currently we brew 11 gallon (to the fermenter) batches using a single tier (two pump) all stainless steel kettle setup. We have two 20 gallon kettles (HLT and Mash Tun) and a 25 gallon stainless brew kettle. For 12 years we used this system it produces good beer etc. My only issue with this system is the sparge. We currently fly sparge but getting a steady flow rate is all but impossible, i.e. a lot of valve adjustments from MT to Boil Kettle. Actually, it's a royal pain. What I would like to do is simply switch to batch sparging using the same equipment. The mash tun has a JayBird, NorCal false bottom. I use beersmith so in reality I could just use their "batch sparge equipment profile" for heat, water volumes, etc. Does anybody out there see an issue trying to use the ss mash tun vs purchasing a 80 gallon cooler and going that route. Thank you all for your time and possible suggestions.
Sincerely Terry S.

 

[simie]

Oops 80 quart cooler not 80 gallons. Sorry

 

[jcav]

Just curious, (you may have done this) have you tried adding a pound of rice hulls to your mash? This helps immensely with not getting a stuck sparge, and the flow rate can be more easily adjusted.

John

 

[kevin58]

Why can't you just drain your mash tun to the BK then pump sparge water into the MT to do a batch sparge?

 

[LarMoeCur]

Batch sparging doesn't really work if you have a false bottom. All your hot sparge water will run into the void and will not be in contact the grain bed. You will have to pump the sparge water out of the void and over the top of the grains to get any kind of efficiency. Essentially recirculating the sparge. Which is closer to fly sparging with agitation. One pass of water over the grains in not going to rinse the sugars right out. You will need to mix the two (grains & sparge water). Hard to do that if your sparge water is under the false bottom.

Not sure why you feel fly sparging is a pain with pumps. I get the most beer drinking time during the sparge. It took me two batches of messing with the valves until I got the perfect flow. Then I marked the valve handles with a sharpie. Now I just line up the sharpie lines and crack a cold one.

 

[simie]

Just curious, (you may have done this) have you tried adding a pound of rice hulls to your mash? This helps immensely with not getting a stuck sparge, and the flow rate can be more easily adjusted.

John

Thank you John, Ill try that next batch. I've used them with wheat beers but not just for ease of sparging..Thank you. Terry

 

[simie]

Batch sparging doesn't really work if you have a false bottom. All your hot sparge water will run into the void and will not be in contact the grain bed. You will have to pump the sparge water out of the void and over the top of the grains to get any kind of efficiency. Essentially recirculating the sparge. Which is closer to fly sparging with agitation. One pass of water over the grains in not going to rinse the sugars right out. You will need to mix the two (grains & sparge water). Hard to do that if your sparge water is under the false bottom.

Not sure why you feel fly sparging is a pain with pumps. I get the most beer drinking time during the sparge. It took me two batches of messing with the valves until I got the perfect flow. Then I marked the valve handles with a sharpie. Now I just line up the sharpie lines and crack a cold one.

Thank you for you’re input. I never would have thought about that. Great point Terry

 

[Jtvann]

Maybe try a blichmann autosparge. If setting multiple pump speeds and turning valves is a hassle, that might help. Supposedly you can open the pumps up fairly fast and control the entire systems rate by throttling the speeding going into the kettle. Everything else adjusts to that rate.

 

[eric19312]

I run similar system but see certain differences.
+1 on the autosparge - I unscrew the float ball during recirculation so it is in "always open" mode at that time and then screw it back on during sparge.

From the insulation on the MLT I take it you are not heating the kettle during the mash (maybe take off the blanket when doing a step). Curious about what you are automatically controlling...

I built a controller to turn the flame on and off under my mash tun based on temp at the pump. HLT and BK are manually controlled. My valves are arranged about the same as yours. I added a sight glass to the mash tun below the norcal false bottom and during mash I use that sight glass to gradually increase flow rate without compacting the grain bed until I have decent sustained flow without compacting before engaging the flame control. That is usually a faster rate than I want to flow during sparge...1+ GPM is target if I can get there without compacting. At end of mash I turn off the mash heat and reduce flow to target...visual estimate I aim for 1.3 quarts per minute so 20 gallons will take about 60 minutes.

I then turn off the right pump, close the valve on the MLT -- but don't touch the valve on the right pump -- and move the MLT return line to the BK. Then screw the autosparge float valve back on. Hook up the HLT to the MLT return and turn on that pump. It will not flow because volume is too high but it is ready. Then open the drain valve on the MLT and turn on the pump on the right. Your MLT -> BK flow rate is already established so should not need any adjustment and the autosparge will keep the level in the MLT consistent.

This works best if you keep adding sparge water until your BK volume reaches target. If run all the way to a dry grain bed there will be flow differences as the MLT volume starts to drop but you are almost done at that point and probably doesn't matter.

 

[day_trippr]

Removing/installing the float ball during a mash sounds like a minor pita easily avoided: stick a thin (1/16") buna-n flat o-ring between the toothy bits of the float arm and thread in the thumb screw. Raise the ball well above the grain and tighten the thumb screw. This will force the valve open during recirculation. When you are ready for fly sparging, loosen the screw, position the ball where you want, and tighten the screw again.

Not only solves the recirculation thing, it provides essentially infinite positioning - without having to flip the arm over if you guessed wrong and live with the tooth pitch...

Cheers!

 

[Jtvann]

Removing/installing the float ball during a mash sounds like a minor pita easily avoided: stick a thin (1/16") buna-n flat o-ring between the toothy bits of the float arm and thread in the thumb screw. Raise the ball well above the grain and tighten the thumb screw. This will force the valve open during recirculation. When you are ready for fly sparging, loosen the screw, position the ball where you want, and tighten the screw again.

Not only solves the recirculation thing, it provides essentially infinite positioning - without having to flip the arm over if you guessed wrong and live with the tooth pitch...

Cheers!

I might not be following you because I can’t visualize it. My autosparge is arriving this week.

What’s the purpose of the o-ring?

 

[eric19312]

Removing/installing the float ball during a mash sounds like a minor pita easily avoided: stick a thin (1/16") buna-n flat o-ring between the toothy bits of the float arm and thread in the thumb screw. Raise the ball well above the grain and tighten the thumb screw. This will force the valve open during recirculation. When you are ready for fly sparging, loosen the screw, position the ball where you want, and tighten the screw again.

Not only solves the recirculation thing, it provides essentially infinite positioning - without having to flip the arm over if you guessed wrong and live with the tooth pitch...

Cheers!

I mounted my autosparge to the lid. Screwing the float ball off and on is not an issue at all. Nor is adjusting the arm position even when mashing in a very very full mash tun.

 

[day_trippr]

I might not be following you because I can’t visualize it. My autosparge is arriving this week. What’s the purpose of the o-ring?

The Blichmann autosparge arm has machined teeth on both sides, offset by a half-tooth, that engage with the toothed control arm on the valve body. Used "as is", you have to decide which orientation of the arm provides the best ride-height for the float ball. If you guess wrong, you have to unscrew and remove the float arm from the valve, flip the toothed end over to the other side, then reattach the arm to the valve. It's a huge pita if you guess wrong, and you are limited by the tooth spacing wrt ride-height. It works, but again, I found it to be a nuisance.

By sticking a temperature-compatible flat rubber washer between the float arm teeth and the valve teeth you now have infinitely adjustable arm that cares not about "teeth" and their spacing. You'll never have to worry that you guessed wrong and have to remove, rotate and reattach the float arm. Trust me when I say this is one of those easy wins you'll appreciate forever.

As shown in the full open position I could recirculate 'til the cows come home and that autosparge won't affect the flow at all - it can't close as shown. But as soon as I want to set up for the fly sparge, I just loosen the screw, position the float to provide a couple of inches of wort above the grain bed, tighten the screw. Done in 10 seconds.

I mounted my autosparge to the lid. Screwing the float ball off and on is not an issue at all. Nor is adjusting the arm position even when mashing in a very very full mash tun.

Interesting. How do you rationally adjust the float ball with the valve attached to the lid? Trial and error? It's not like you can see where it's riding, right?

Cheers!

 

[eric19312]

Interesting. How do you rationally adjust the float ball with the valve attached to the lid? Trial and error? It's not like you can see where it's riding, right?
Cheers!

pretty easy to see where you are...just lift the lid...and turn it over...see the full range of the float. I guess I am eyeballing it based on experience for different recipes...this worked fine on my last batch where the mash tun was really at maximum capacity. If I don't like where it is riding it is not buried down in the mash necessitating heat resistant gloves to get in there and make and adjustment.

 

[eric19312]

Oh I also see what you mean. You have a nice big mash tun.

My mash tun is undersized for my batches. Last batch I had 38 pounds of grain in a 15.5 gallon mash tun on top of a false bottom. After allowing for the gallon of water under the false bottom I had to set beersmith to 1.0 qt/lb to get the the batch to fit the tun. It was very full. That 45 degree elbow was half in the mash when I started. At beginning of my lauter I probably pull about 2 gallons of wort before the autosparge starts letting any sparge water into the tun.

 

[day_trippr]

Well, kudos for making stuff work under tight circumstances

I run three elderly 20 gallon Blichmann G1 kettles, and target 10 gallons to the kegs. Yes, usually there's more than adequate headspace in the mlt. The one exception is my 1.107 stout - on that one half the autosparge valve is submerged, and not having to flip the float arm over and possibly dropping the screw is a relief

Cheers!

 

[simie]

Well, kudos for making stuff work under tight circumstances

I run three elderly 20 gallon Blichmann G1 kettles, and target 10 gallons to the kegs. Yes, usually there's more than adequate headspace in the mlt. The one exception is my 1.107 stout - on that one half the autosparge valve is submerged, and not having to flip the float arm over and possibly dropping the screw is a relief

Cheers!

I want to thank all of you who posted. You have all given me some things to try..Looking forward to trying some out. Thanks again for taking the time to help me/us out. I really appreciate it...Cheers Terry

 

[Jtvann]

Got mine rigged up last night. 12 inch arm with a few bends to accommodate the manifold.