I just brewed my first batch (brewers best amber ale) and it has odd bitter taste up front but fairly smooth otherwise. After reading about the process I found out that having squeezed the grain bag into the wort was definitely a bad thing. Is it possible that squeezing the grain bag led to this out of the ordinary bitternes. If not, any opinions?
Squeezing the grain bag
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This subject has been kicked around. Basically two things aid in the extraction of tannins from grains: temperatures and ph.
What temps did you steep at?
I don't think squeezing the bag really causes the extraction of tannins, I've done it before on my extract w\ specialty grain batches and on my mini-mash-in-a-bag batches without any noticeable effect.
How would you describe the bitterness? Is it like sucking on a tea bag? How old is the beer? How long was the primary/secondary/bottle conditioning?
What temps did you steep at?
I don't think squeezing the bag really causes the extraction of tannins, I've done it before on my extract w\ specialty grain batches and on my mini-mash-in-a-bag batches without any noticeable effect.
How would you describe the bitterness? Is it like sucking on a tea bag? How old is the beer? How long was the primary/secondary/bottle conditioning?
It will probably be fine. Next time heat some water in a pitcher and pour through the grain bag after you lift it out with tongs. This will extract the last bit of goodness from the grain without squeezing.
lastsecondapex
Well-Known Member
Squeeze every bit you can get out of it. It will NOT contribute off-flavors, tannins, issues with the body, or any other ill effects than temporarily burnt hands.
TromboneGuy
Well-Known Member
My guess would be you steeped it too hot. I usually squeeze my grain bag (now THAT sounds dirty) and haven't had any problems.
You can definitely squeeze the bag! But as was mentioned, it is f*&king hot if you heat it up to mash out temps.
I squeeze the hell out of the bag and have not had any issues with tannins. I have had issues with astringency in my darker beers, I think from double crushing my dark malts. Anyone else experience this? It makes sense to me that over crushing roasted grains would add more bitterness since it comes from the husk which are brittle in dark grains. It's just a theory.
I squeeze the hell out of the bag and have not had any issues with tannins. I have had issues with astringency in my darker beers, I think from double crushing my dark malts. Anyone else experience this? It makes sense to me that over crushing roasted grains would add more bitterness since it comes from the husk which are brittle in dark grains. It's just a theory.
twelvelookslikex
Well-Known Member
I squeeze, twist and smash mine. Feels like im getting more color out of them
upperNY01brewer
Well-Known Member
Squeeze away, nothing wrong with that. As had been mentioned I'd think the flavors come from to high temp.
Ive been Putting my bag o grain after the sparge in a steamer type pan then use a plate that fits and push down on it.Collects the rest in in the bottom under the strainer insert.Works great and dont have to cool it to squeeze or use tongs that threaten to rip my sack.Nobody needs a ripped sack anyhow. I got over 85% eff today on a ryepa! Woo-hoo!
Brew_4iT
Well-Known Member
Wow really? All this time I could of saved so much time... I always thought it was a cardinal sin to do this. I've been treating my bags of grain like new born babies! So all you guys saying that it's fine to squeeze out grains never had any negative effects by it?
Wow, it's so refreshing to actually see the correct answer given to this and notthe usual "OHMYGODYOUSQUEEZEDTHEGRAINBAGIREADSOMEWHERE/HEARDSOMEWHERETHATYOUCANEXTRACTTANNINS" nonsense you usually see when this question gets asked.
onipar
Well-Known Member
Wow, it's so refreshing to actually see the correct answer given to this and notthe usual "OHMYGODYOUSQUEEZEDTHEGRAINBAGIREADSOMEWHERE/HEARDSOMEWHERETHATYOUCANEXTRACTTANNINS" nonsense you usually see when this question gets asked.
Where does the "don't squeeze the bag" answer come from? Because that *is* what I hear most often. I think I even saw it on an episode Brewing TV before.
Also, is this just for specialty grains, or could you presumably also squeeze a partial mash BIAB grain bag?
Is this one of those outdated answers that used to be true, or was it never really true?
Sorry, just very curious.
Where does the "don't squeeze the bag" answer come from? Because that *is* what I hear most often. I think I even saw it on an episode Brewing TV before.
Also, is this just for specialty grains, or could you presumably also squeeze a partial mash BIAB grain bag?
Is this one of those outdated answers that used to be true, or was it never really true?
Sorry, just very curious.
From the same place where autolysis worries, and hot side aeration comes from, brewing bogeyman land. Usually something that might have been the case 30 years ago or something that actually has a lot of depth but has been reduced to a barely thought about or understood "catch phrase" that just gets perpetuated over and over with little forethought or understanding.
Or some noob blamed his green beer on something he thought he did wrong and it just spread like wildfire. "My beer tastes like ****, I squeezed my grainbag, therefore squeezing my grainbag made my beer taste like crap."
In this case it was probably more than likely the discussion "Don't Squeeze the grain bag x, y and z conditions are in effect (which is the truth see here.) Got over simplified by authors and "helpful" noobs just passing it on to "Don't EVER squeeze it."
Ever play the game "telephone?" Often when passing information from person to person the information bears little in resemblance to the original after it's gone through a few persons. Each person's internal filtering affects the message, and it gets edited or mutates.
And just because something end up on brewstrong or even in Palmer, doesn't mean that they're not just perpetuating the myth, or basing it on half information. Look at Palmer and autolysis/long primaries, he now had had to admit he just repeated the old "chestnut" about getting beer off the yeast without digging further or even just giving it much more thought, than just passing on the info. That's why I caution people to not just repeat what they've read or heard, without doing some digging on their own.
onipar
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link and answer, Revvy. It fascinates me how many perpetuated myths there are in home brewing. Sometimes it seems like people continue to believe the myths out of fear. I guess it comes from the worry of "ruining beer" that many brewers take the "better safe than sorry" route.
The more I brew, the more apparent it becomes that it's pretty darn hard to brew a bad batch.
It fascinates me how many perpetuated myths there are in home brewing. Sometimes it seems like people continue to believe the myths out of fear. I guess it comes from the worry of "ruining beer" that many brewers take the "better safe than sorry" route. The more I brew, the more apparent it becomes that it's pretty darn hard to brew a bad batch.
I think you hit the nail on the head. But not just in brewing, it's human nature. Especially on the web. One of my interests in memes- the spreading of information. Especially the spread of myths and urban legends on the web. I've written a lot about it elsewhere. I had a ton of blogs on Myspace, back in the day, usually breaking down those stupid things that folks pass around online.
An interesting side bar is that someone will post one of those negative things. And you can write up a blurb using snopes.com disproving it, and of the same folks who eagerly pass on the negative, only a handful will bother to share the "retraction."
A lot of my interests stems from being interested in what people choose to believe in, and why.
Belief is obviously an important part of spirituality and religion.
(It's also why I'm so interested in brewing "myths" that scare new brewers and researching them to disprove them, so they rdwhahb and actually enjoy this hobby.)
We didnt record the boil temp the 1st time (as we just did with the 2nd batch). It was in the primary for 7 days, Secondary for 2 weeks and bottle conditioned for 2 weeks(as of 1 week ago). The bitterness seems to have a slight lemon/citrus flavor but not as sharp of a bitter flavor as a tea bag.
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They often say don't squeeze the bag, because when you squeeze a tea bag it extracts tannins and causes some astringency. Well, tea and barley are two different things....
Bradinator
Well-Known Member
I squeeze the bag all the time. Squeeze it long and hard. Place it in the pot. Give it a press but its to hot! Ow. That's a nasty bag. Put on the squeezin' gloves. Now whos the boss? Bradinator's the boss. Squeezin' that bag. Get the efficiency. Oh yeah.
It takes high temps well above 170 as well a specific PH level to extract tannins. I accidentally proved this during my last brew. I walked away from the steeping pot on the stove for a few minutes and when I returned I saw the steeping water boiling around the grain bag. I immediately removed it from the heat and was thinking about how big of a mistake I just made. So then I figured what the hell 50/50 chance so I used it anyways. Guess what, it's one of the best beers according to SWMBO so far. It was a Saison. Poop happens and we still make good beer! So squeeze away it's not going to hurt anything but improve your efficiency.
beerloaf
beerloaf
petey_c
Senior Member
I let it drain in a colander on the brew pot. Squeeze the bag. The 2+ qts. of water that I used to rinse the grains with (170°F), I now let sit in the water for 10 - 20 minutes. Drain and squeeze again. No problems so far.
Skarekrough
Well-Known Member
Squeezing the grain bag....good!
Squeezing the Charmin....bad!
Seriously though....I've had one incident where I attributed a darker color to the beer than I really wanted as the result of getting every little last drop out of the grain bag. I distinctly remember it being overkill and regret doing it, but honestly I've done it plenty of times and never had an issue other than that single event.
Most times I take the bag and hang it from a handle on the cupboard in the kitchen and let it drain into a pyrex bowl. I might give it a squeeze or two, but nothing all that crazy.
Squeezing the Charmin....bad!
Seriously though....I've had one incident where I attributed a darker color to the beer than I really wanted as the result of getting every little last drop out of the grain bag. I distinctly remember it being overkill and regret doing it, but honestly I've done it plenty of times and never had an issue other than that single event.
Most times I take the bag and hang it from a handle on the cupboard in the kitchen and let it drain into a pyrex bowl. I might give it a squeeze or two, but nothing all that crazy.
