Split batch of YB's Melange, Farmhouse Sour and Saison Brett

[kbindera]

A bit delayed in getting an update posted from my last sample. Samples pulled 6/18/15:

Also note that I am no longer heating these carboys with firmwraps. Pulled those off as the temp came up out here in late May. They sit between 66-68F in my basement.

Saison Brett
1.005
pH 4.38
Almonds, cherries, stone fruit, spice. Lime zest. Malt character is there. Brilliant clarity.

Melange
1.010
pH 3.82
Picking up a woody/oak character. Blackberry/strawberry. The cider character I picked up in the last tasting seems to have evolved into kind of a vinous tannin, best way I can describe it. If you gave me this sample blind, I’d swear it had been sitting in a barrel. Beer maintains a substantial haze, compared to Saison Brett.
Pellicle seems to be reforming.

Farmhouse Sour
1.004
pH 3.59
Tartness is coming along nicely and the fruit addition (apricot/rhubarb) comes through. Rhubarb is pretty pronounced on the nose and apricot comes through in the flavor, along with the rhubarb. Malt character of the beer stands up and there is still an earthiness. Brilliant clarity.

 

[kbindera]

Updates from 6/30:

Melange:
Nice gnarly pellicle had reformed when I peeked in on 6/22/15. Planning to let this one sit for a few more months before sampling again.

Saison Brett:
Did a few dry hop editions:
-6/26/15 - 1 oz. 2014 Azaca pellets
-6/30/15 - 3 oz. 2013 Galaxy pellets (the last of my supply)
Let’s give this beer some hop glycosides to chew on (and hope I didn’t screw it up with too much hops).

Farmhouse Sour:
1.004
pH: 3.5
Racked to keg. Pitched a vial of YB’s Beersel Brett blend into the keg. Purged with CO2 and shook some CO2 in, just a bit. Plan to let the Brett sit in the keg under pressure for a few weeks before tasting. I could have put this on tap now, it tastes great. I just wanted a bit more complexity. A friend happened to give me a vial of Beersel and YB’s description of it calls out “fruitiness”. What the heck, let’s do this.

 

[505-Brewer]

Sounds great. Thank you for the updates. I just did a pale sour with Melange vs Wyeast Lambic blend/Cuvée Rene dregs. Forgot to measure the wort pH but am tracking temps and will pull samples for pH in a week or so. at Day 4 now. Cooled in at 64f and have been letting rise about 2 deg per day. Thinking now middle 70s should be a good temp. Melange starter had a nice mineral lemony aroma/flavor while the Wyeast was much darker in color and mostly funky Brett in profile. Dregs went into wort after 24 h not in the starter.

 

[Biobrewer]

Sounds great. Thank you for the updates. I just did a pale sour with Melange vs Wyeast Lambic blend/Cuvée Rene dregs. Forgot to measure the wort pH but am tracking temps and will pull samples for pH in a week or so. at Day 4 now. Cooled in at 64f and have been letting rise about 2 deg per day. Thinking now middle 70s should be a good temp. Melange starter had a nice mineral lemony aroma/flavor while the Wyeast was much darker in color and mostly funky Brett in profile. Dregs went into wort after 24 h not in the starter.

Mid-70's will definitely work for Melange Blend. I've been more in the 70-72 range and it works well. At something like 6 or 8 weeks it was approximately at pH 3.30. I am inclined to believe that sour beers achieve a better balance between sourness and Brett character when done at lower temperatures, in the 60's. It was interesting to hear Vinnie talk about that on The Sour Hour and how the temperature profile for Beatification changed over the years.

 

[505-Brewer]

Interesting. Ive drained the water from igloo cooler so they're likely sitting at low 70s in den. One of chest freezers died so Im using igloo water cooler containers w water and ice. Letting it ride now. Sour in 6 weeks is good. How long to let it condition? Several months? What about doing that in keg cold under pressure? As long as diacetyl is gone?

 

[Biobrewer]

Interesting. Ive drained the water from igloo cooler so they're likely sitting at low 70s in den. One of chest freezers died so Im using igloo water cooler containers w water and ice. Letting it ride now. Sour in 6 weeks is good. How long to let it condition? Several months? What about doing that in keg cold under pressure? As long as diacetyl is gone?

My advice with sours is once terminal gravity is reached, taste periodically to determine when the flavor matures to the point you want it to. Really hard to put a hard date on it. Our Farmhouse Sour Ale and Melange haven't produced copiously hi amounts of diacetyl in our experience, but yes, If you're getting some, let it age out a little more so the yeast can re-uptake.

 

[505-Brewer]

My advice with sours is once terminal gravity is reached, taste periodically to determine when the flavor matures to the point you want it to. Really hard to put a hard date on it. Our Farmhouse Sour Ale and Melange haven't produced copiously hi amounts of diacetyl in our experience, but yes, If you're getting some, let it age out a little more so the yeast can re-uptake.

Melange sour is at 3.17 ! No hops in wort. Still sitting at mid 74 deg F. It's super acidic to the taste. I'm getting hints of butyric and maybe isovaleric but maybe it's just so sour my taste buds are off. Reminds me of some funkier Lambics. Pretty intense now. Going to let this one age out to see if the favors develop and soften some. Crazy bugs in this. It will certainly be a blending beer not to be consumed straight. I have ~ 60 gals of funky, sour beers to blend it with so that should help. Next time I'll use some hops to try and lesson the acidity as per Biobrewer's comments.


Oh and no diacetyl!

 

[hopsandhops]

Melange sour is at 3.17 ! No hops in wort. Still sitting at mid 74 deg F. It's super acidic to the taste. I'm getting hints of butyric and maybe isovaleric but maybe it's just so sour my taste buds are off. Reminds me of some funkier Lambics. Pretty intense now. Going to let this one age out to see if the favors develop and soften some. Crazy bugs in this. It will certainly be a blending beer not to be consumed straight. I have ~ 60 gals of funky, sour beers to blend it with so that should help. Next time I'll use some hops to try and lesson the acidity as per Biobrewer's comments.


Oh and no diacetyl!

Any update on these? The Melange blend specifically?

 

[505-Brewer]

Yes. No more valeric. All butyric turned into awesome pineapple. Peaked around 7 months (?) for pineapple. Acidity has softened although pH is same. Light brett character with pineapple still there. To drink it straight Id want some tannins from fruit or oak to round it out. Its perfect for blending. I'll likely put 1 gal on cherries for a kriek and keep aging the rest to see how it keeps evolving. About 1 year old or so now -less i think actually. My buddy (certified cicerone) said it reminded him of the straight lambics he had at Cantillon in Brussels. Suggested let it keep going as it should get better/more complex. Not sure what else it has to eat since its not in a bbl but maybe brett will consume what cake is in the fermenter.....

Im also using it to blend in some character to Saisons and other sours. I will brew this again either via solera or by buying more yeast. Really like flavor profile as of now. Crazy drinkable.

 

[hopsandhops]

That's great to hear. There's not a ton of info around about reviews/results etc

I hopped to 3 IBU, so we'll see how quickly and strongly it sours. Sounds like it might get pretty sour, especially because I also pitched the dregs of Cuvee Rene as well

Have you tested the FG lately?

 

[505-Brewer]

I'll have to check and get back to you but I think it was 1.008 or so.

 

[hopsandhops]

That seems about right for the 85%+ they list

 

[kbindera]

Melange is holding steady at 1.010. PH has dropped a bit since I last looked in on it. It's now at 3.63. Brilliant clarity and a really solid beer. It's is screaming to be racked onto some apricots or peaches. Or maybe it will get integrated into my Solera somehow.

 

[kbindera]

Farmhouse sour was racked onto rhubarb and apricots back in May. Then put it in a keg in August and carbed it. I bottled it in October. It's a crowd favorite and the tartness married so well with the rhubarb. I'm now conviced that if you want strawberry character in a beer, use rhubarb. It holds up well and really comes through as a noticeable flavor (and you don't need a ridiculous amount).
It will be judged this weekend in a big comp around here. We'll see how it does. It's kind of hit or miss with sours in homebrew competition. That's my experience anyway. Oh well, we loved it and I thank Nick for that awesome blend. Keep em coming dude!

 

[Biobrewer]

Farmhouse sour was racked onto rhubarb and apricots back in May. Then put it in a keg in August and carbed it. I bottled it in October. It's a crowd favorite and the tartness married so well with the rhubarb. I'm now conviced that if you want strawberry character in a beer, use rhubarb. It holds up well and really comes through as a noticeable flavor (and you don't need a ridiculous amount).
It will be judged this weekend in a big comp around here. We'll see how it does. It's kind of hit or miss with sours in homebrew competition. That's my experience anyway. Oh well, we loved it and I thank Nick for that awesome blend. Keep em coming dude!

Glad to hear the cultures are working out for you! I agree on the rhubarb, good strawberry character. If you want to maximize the strawberry, you should give the Lochristi Blend a shot!

 

[mitchard]

I did a saison with the Saison Brett blend a little over a month ago. For any of you that used it, how long before you bottled? I haven't checked the gravity yet, as I was going to give it at least two months before worrying about it at all. I know that it doesn't follow a clock and it'll be done when its done, but I'm just curious.

I guess my main question is does a Brett+Sacc blend for primary behave more like a Brett primary where it will finish out in a shorter time period, or more like a mixed fermentation? I haven't done much by way of Brett+Sacc brews (mainly doing all long-term mixed fermentation), so this is kind of new world to me.

 

[m00ps]

I did a saison with the Saison Brett blend a little over a month ago. For any of you that used it, how long before you bottled? I haven't checked the gravity yet, as I was going to give it at least two months before worrying about it at all. I know that it doesn't follow a clock and it'll be done when its done, but I'm just curious.

I guess my main question is does a Brett+Sacc blend for primary behave more like a Brett primary where it will finish out in a shorter time period, or more like a mixed fermentation? I haven't done much by way of Brett+Sacc brews (mainly doing all long-term mixed fermentation), so this is kind of new world to me.

Huh? You are doing a "mixed" fermentation in either case. Pitching them together should get it to hit its ultimate FG and develop brett character a bit quicker, but its not going to be ready as fast as an all brett or all sacch fermentation

 

[mitchard]

That answers my question, thanks. I worded that wrong, as both are obviously mixed fermentation. I was more wondering about the differences between finishing times for Brett+Sacc+Bug blends vs just Brett+Sacc blends, when it comes to hitting FG quicker compared to other mixed fermentation containing bugs.