Sparging on the Grainfather

[mos13gman]

I do a hybrid sparge with the Grainfather. After mashout, position the pump...

So, I am curious. What kind of numbers are you getting this way? To ball-park it, what would you expect with an ordinary 10Lb grain recipe for OG/FG? Better yet, do you have a %brewhouse efficiency? Mine is low per GF directions...looking for alternative sparging ideas...

 

[Brewmasher]

I can't really say with a 10# grain bill- I have not done a batch < 19#

I was getting pretty low results, like 62%. With the hybrid sparge it has gone up to 78%. I found that pushing it to 20# does more harm than good.

 

[mos13gman]

Okay, thanks for the info...I've done several between 10-17Lbs grain and getting around 65%...78% is much better. Will try it, but also keep digging to get over 80. Improving this system's efficiency is tough to figure out! I need help from a German ha.

 

[Brewmasher]

I found on the larger grain beds, I was looping the recirculating hose around the outer edge. This was causing the wort to whirlpool down the side instead of through the wort. Trim the hose so it goes through the wort and not the size. Also longer rests are needed to convert all that grain.

Pull the basket up to drain as much wort as possible. Even better remove the basket and scrape out any crud sticking to the heating element and remove any trub. Then add as much sparge water as you can. Stir, then wait. It seems like you can always put a little more in after it soaks a bit.

You can do a partigyle brew like this too.

 

[JayInJersey]

Ok here's a question you guys with the GF might be able to ask.

My sparges are running fast.
Like super fast.
And I'm thinking this is one of the major causes of not hitting my EOG.

And when I say fast...I pull the basket up, press the top grate down right over top of grain and slowly pour the sparge water as slow as possible while still maintaining some water on top of the grainbed/grate. All good right?
I fill a half gallon pitcher for each pour...and as slow as possible to maintain some water on the grate is nearly a full pour...as in about as fast as my GF Sparge heater can fill a half gallon pitcher!

The sparge is just free flowing through the grains....which I wouldn't complain about, but I'm missing OG's by 10 points or more.

So I'm sparging (for example on my last Irish Red brew) a 3.6G sparge in roughly 3 minutes...and missing the OG by 10 points.


I've considered rigging something to the recirculation arm as to recirc the wort with the sparge just to make the process longer (I've always heard a good sparge is 45 minutes)


Thoughts?

 

[doug293cz]

Ok here's a question you guys with the GF might be able to ask.

My sparges are running fast.
Like super fast.
And I'm thinking this is one of the major causes of not hitting my EOG.

And when I say fast...I pull the basket up, press the top grate down right over top of grain and slowly pour the sparge water as slow as possible while still maintaining some water on top of the grainbed/grate. All good right?
I fill a half gallon pitcher for each pour...and as slow as possible to maintain some water on the grate is nearly a full pour...as in about as fast as my GF Sparge heater can fill a half gallon pitcher!

The sparge is just free flowing through the grains....which I wouldn't complain about, but I'm missing OG's by 10 points or more.

So I'm sparging (for example on my last Irish Red brew) a 3.6G sparge in roughly 3 minutes...and missing the OG by 10 points.


I've considered rigging something to the recirculation arm as to recirc the wort with the sparge just to make the process longer (I've always heard a good sparge is 45 minutes)


Thoughts?

Don't recirc the wort with the sparge. That will just put sugar back in the grain bed. You're trying to rinse sugar out of the grain bed with the sparge. Rinsing only works if you use a liquid with lower concentration of the solute (sugar in our case) than the liquid that was previously in contact with whatever you are trying to rinse. You can't rinse dishes by putting them back into the soapy water.

Brew on

 

[skraeling]

Ok here's a question you guys with the GF might be able to ask.

My sparges are running fast.
Like super fast.
And I'm thinking this is one of the major causes of not hitting my EOG.

And when I say fast...I pull the basket up, press the top grate down right over top of grain and slowly pour the sparge water as slow as possible while still maintaining some water on top of the grainbed/grate. All good right?
I fill a half gallon pitcher for each pour...and as slow as possible to maintain some water on the grate is nearly a full pour...as in about as fast as my GF Sparge heater can fill a half gallon pitcher!

The sparge is just free flowing through the grains....which I wouldn't complain about, but I'm missing OG's by 10 points or more.

So I'm sparging (for example on my last Irish Red brew) a 3.6G sparge in roughly 3 minutes...and missing the OG by 10 points.


I've considered rigging something to the recirculation arm as to recirc the wort with the sparge just to make the process longer (I've always heard a good sparge is 45 minutes)


Thoughts?

3.6g seems like a lot of sparge water. Are you using grainfather calcs set to 6g batches but doing a 5g recipe?

 

[RedlegEd]

So I wanted to start a separate thread from the "Grainfather!!" to specifically discuss sparging.

How is everyone doing it?

What are your thoughts? How are you sparging on your Grainfather?

Hi. I also posted this earlier in the Grainfather!! thread, but though it appropriate here as well. I bought a 5 gallon water cooler to use as a Hot Liquor Tank (HLT.) I replaced the stock spigot with 1/2" bucket spigot and use a piece of 1/2" silicone tubing to reach the basket to sparge. What I do is heat all the water of a batch in the GF kettle to strike, then pump off the sparge amount into the cooler before doughing in. It stays nice and hot while I mash. The spigot is great to control the flow. Hope that helps. Ed

 

[JayInJersey]

3.6g seems like a lot of sparge water. Are you using grainfather calcs set to 6g batches but doing a 5g recipe?

Nope. My recipe volume was 5G. Technically it was 3.17G of sparge.



Guys at Grainfather suggested I mill my grain finer...but if the sparge was already running through it so fast, wouldn't a finer mill make it that much faster?

Or would the finer grain create a more solid bed?

 

[joegbeer]

Guys at Grainfather suggested I mill my grain finer...but if the sparge was already running through it so fast, wouldn't a finer mill make it that much faster?

Or would the finer grain create a more solid bed?

My first reaction to your sparge question was that you are milling to coarsely. My sparges take at least 20-30 minutes to add all the water, and another 30+ minutes draining the basket while I'm heating to a boil.

I believe my mill is set somewhere around 0.028.

I have stuck/very slow sparge problems when doing large grain bills over about 17 lbs or more. I've started using a 1/2 pound of rice hulls in all my large grain bills and my sparges still go very slow.

 

[thedon986]

My first reaction to your sparge question was that you are milling to coarsely. My sparges take at least 20-30 minutes to add all the water, and another 30+ minutes draining the basket while I'm heating to a boil.

I believe my mill is set somewhere around 0.028.

I have stuck/very slow sparge problems when doing large grain bills over about 17 lbs or more. I've started using a 1/2 pound of rice hulls in all my large grain bills and my sparges still go very slow.

Wow, that's a pretty narrow setting. I still have my mill set at the factory .039 and have thought about narrowing it a bit. Do you find a lot of gains in your kettle? My efficiency has not really gone up after moving from my water cooler/false bottom set up so I am thinking my milling is the issue.

 

[Kampenken]

..Guys at Grainfather suggested I mill my grain finer...but if the sparge was already running through it so fast, wouldn't a finer mill make it that much faster?...

Opposite, coarser quicker, finer slower (and potential for stuck).

Wow, that's a pretty narrow setting. I still have my mill set at the factory .039 ....

That's what I thought too!

 

[joegbeer]

Wow, that's a pretty narrow setting. I still have my mill set at the factory .039 and have thought about narrowing it a bit. Do you find a lot of gains in your kettle? My efficiency has not really gone up after moving from my water cooler/false bottom set up so I am thinking my milling is the issue.

I came up with that gap setting by researching threads about it.

I'll have a few grain pieces in my kettle, but it doesn't seem like anything excessive. i think most of them come from the overflow tube during the start of the mash. My efficiencies per the grainfather calculators are always in the low to mid 80s for a normal batch size (12-15 lbs).

 

[JayInJersey]

Interesting...

I don't mill my own (yes...I know) so this would be NortherBrewer default.


Might be time I finally got off my ass and purchased that Barley Crusher I've always been eyeing (finally got myself that Maelstrom mixer and HOLY JEEBUS...that baby twirls)

 

[MyMistake]

Hi. I also posted this earlier in the Grainfather!! thread, but though it appropriate here as well. I bought a 5 gallon water cooler to use as a Hot Liquor Tank (HLT.) I replaced the stock spigot with 1/2" bucket spigot and use a piece of 1/2" silicone tubing to reach the basket to sparge. What I do is heat all the water of a batch in the GF kettle to strike, then pump off the sparge amount into the cooler before doughing in. It stays nice and hot while I mash. The spigot is great to control the flow. Hope that helps. Ed

I just got a Robobrew and did this on my first batch. Have you figured out the best way to get the temps right?

 

[kh54s10]

I just got a Robobrew and did this on my first batch. Have you figured out the best way to get the temps right?

Sparge water temperature is not critical. Some say that even cold water is enough. Some say that hotter water helps dissolve the sugars. I just use hot at whatever temperature it happens to be.

 

[doug293cz]

... Some say that hotter water helps dissolve the sugars. ...

Hot water does dissolve solid sugar faster than cold water. But, there is no solid sugar in a mash. All sugar is created in a dissolved form, and you can't get the sugar concentration high enough to cause precipitation at mash temps.

Brew on

 

[ten80]

Hot water does dissolve solid sugar faster than cold water. But, there is no solid sugar in a mash. All sugar is created in a dissolved form, and you can't get the sugar concentration high enough to cause precipitation at mash temps.

Agreed. There is a debatable advantage with a hot sparge IF you still have starches or sugars physically within the grain, as hot water will penetrate the grains faster than cold water (e.g., try making a bowl of oatmeal with cold water versus hot water). Heat energy enhances molecular movement and speeds the rate of diffusion IF there is any potential for diffusion remaining. It's my impression that the effect of a hot sparge on a 60-min mash would be negligible, but it may more substantial for a short 20 or 30 minute mash.

For me, the only obvious advantage of a hot sparge is that it takes less time to get the wort to a boil. I like to heat my sparge water as my mash nears completion.

 

[doug293cz]

Agreed. There is a debatable advantage with a hot sparge IF you still have starches or sugars physically within the grain, as hot water will penetrate the grains faster than cold water (e.g., try making a bowl of oatmeal with cold water versus hot water). Heat energy enhances molecular movement and speeds the rate of diffusion IF there is any potential for diffusion remaining. It's my impression that the effect of a hot sparge on a 60-min mash would be negligible, but it may more substantial for a short 20 or 30 minute mash.

For me, the only obvious advantage of a hot sparge is that it takes less time to get the wort to a boil. I like to heat my sparge water as my mash nears completion.

If you still have starch in the mash, then conversion is not complete, and a hot sparge should allow some additional conversion to occur (as long as you haven't done a mash out, or the sparge water is hot enough to denature the enzymes.) There is never any sugar "in" the grains (for base malts, and unmalted grain) only starch, protein, and other minor components.

Starch must be gelatinized (starch chains surrounded by water molecules) in order for the enzymes to hydrolyze the glycosidic bonds to chop up the starch chains. Gelatinization requires hot water to proceed at an appreciable rate. Gelatinization starts well below the experimentally determined "gelatinization temperature", but the lower the temperature, the slower the gelatinization.

Cooking oatmeal is nothing more than gelatinizing the starch. There is no appreciable conversion of starch to sugar when cooking oatmeal. So, of course oatmeal "cooks" faster in hot rather than cold water.

Sparging is just diluting a sugar solution. No sugar dissolution, or appreciable diffusion needs to occur. Gelatinization on the other hand does require diffusion of water into the starch granules.

Brew on

 

[ihavenonickname]

I like your method - what do you set your brewhouse efficiency at for a no sparge on the GF?

I simply up the mash water and the grain bill and I dont bother sparging.I am not worried about efficiency as I am not Annheiser Busch or Coors etc.

I buy my malt in multiple bags at a time at a cost of less than .50 cents a pound for ESB/Pale Ale/Munich/Vienna.If I use 16 pounds of malt and mash with 7 gallons of water and I end up with 6 gallons of wort to boil and end up with 5 it is all good with no worry about extracting tannins at all.

Typical cost for me to make a batch of beer is $12 including malt/hops/additives/yeast as I buy everything in bulk.

My view is that the Grainfather is a constant recirculation mash system so it doesn not need a sparge if you over do it on the grain bill.

Never had a bad beer yet nor one that was under volume.

RMCB