Southern Tier Pumking Clone??

[BUCKNUTS]

It makes zero sense that they would use extracts in both but only write it on one label. Hence, if they write it on one but not the other, logic dictates that there are no extracts in it. Forget labeling laws and supposed artificial tastes, this is the closest thing anyone here has to proof that there are no extracts in Pumking. Unless they are all playing mind games and laughing at us

I might be able to agree with you that it would make sense but i would not agree that it "definitively" proves anything. Pumpking is a huge $ maker for ST and I put nothing past any company that is trying to protect their bottom line. You may poo poo the anecdotal evidence of my tasting artificial flavorings in the beer but anecdotal evidence is not useless especially in a situation like this where we are sttempting to mimic the flavor of the beer.

 

[rcs226]

Back to the recipe cloning... What's the verdict of the pumpkin pie extract posted a few pages back? I'm thinking of ordering it as long as it is producing favorable results. I'm getting ready to keg my batch. It tastes pretty good, but no way a clone yet.

 

[rcs226]

Also, was it the natural, or imitation? And what is the amount/gallon that has had good results?

 

[homebrewed505]

so I have read most of the thread. can someone post a final all grain recipe.

Graham cracker extract or not?

butter flavor extract or not?

graham crackers in the mash?

please post a final recipe!!

 

[insanim8er]

so I have read most of the thread. can someone post a final all grain recipe.

Graham cracker extract or not?

butter flavor extract or not?

graham crackers in the mash?

please post a final recipe!!

there is none!!

 

[ErieShores]

so I have read most of the thread. can someone post a final all grain recipe.

Graham cracker extract or not?

butter flavor extract or not?

graham crackers in the mash?

please post a final recipe!!

Disclaimer: I don't have any concrete evidence.
-No graham cracker extract! No! No! No!
-Butter flavor is still a possibility.
-I highly doubt they mash graham crackers.
grain bill is a guess but try a simple amber with 2row C-40 and libbys pumpkin.
OG- 1.078
FG-1.013
Bitter with magnum and saaz at 15 target like 35 IBUs
Make a tincture of spices in 151 rum

 

[homebrewed505]

here is what i have made of all the chatter. graham cracker in mash. no extract! I used 1lb crystal 60L instead of 12oz crystal 80L. i made my tincture with 4oz absolute vodka instead of rum.

i have not made this yet i plan on brewing friday. does my recipe look ok? butter extract?

p.s.
sorry for spelling and capitalization i have a newborn in my arms typing with one hand

My attempt @ “ST Pumking”
OG: 1.080?
FG: 1.018?
Approx.: 8.3% ABV?

Mash:
Mash water 161 step to 154 for 90 min (no sparge)
14lbs 2-Row
1lb Victory
1lb Crystal 60L
1 Box of Graham Crackers crushed
60oz (4 small cans ) pureed pumpkin coated in honey and baked 45 min @350. Cool to 154
1lb Rice Hulls

Boil:
3/4oz. Magnum hops @60 min
1/4oz. Sterling @ 15 min

3/4lb Demerara sugar (added after hot break)
1/4lb light brown sugar (added after hot break)

8oz. Lactose @ 15 min
1/2tsp. Yeast nutrient @ 10 min
1tsp Irish Moss@ 10 min
2Tbsp fine chopped candied ginger@ 5 min
3 cinnamon sticks@ 5 min
1/2tsp whole cloves@ 5 min
1/2tsp nutmeg @ 5 min
1/2tsp Allspice@ 5 min

Yeast:
2 packs Safeale US-05

Ferment:
66 degrees for 2 weeks in primary and 3 weeks in secondary

Secondary:
2 Madagascar Vanilla Beans (split and scrapped and soaked in 4oz of vodka for 2 weeks)
1tsp pumpkin pie spice

 

[insanim8er]

here is what i have made of all the chatter. graham cracker in mash. no extract! I used 1lb crystal 60L instead of 12oz crystal 80L. i made my tincture with 4oz absolute vodka instead of rum.

i have not made this yet i plan on brewing friday. does my recipe look ok? butter extract?

p.s.
sorry for spelling and capitalization i have a newborn in my arms typing with one hand

My attempt @ “ST Pumking”
OG: 1.080?
FG: 1.018?
Approx.: 8.3% ABV?

Mash:
Mash water 161 step to 154 for 90 min (no sparge)
14lbs 2-Row
1lb Victory
1lb Crystal 60L
1 Box of Graham Crackers crushed
60oz (4 small cans ) pureed pumpkin coated in honey and baked 45 min @350. Cool to 154
1lb Rice Hulls

Boil:
3/4oz. Magnum hops @60 min
1/4oz. Sterling @ 15 min

3/4lb Demerara sugar (added after hot break)
1/4lb light brown sugar (added after hot break)

8oz. Lactose @ 15 min
1/2tsp. Yeast nutrient @ 10 min
1tsp whirlfloc@ 10 min
2Tbsp fine chopped candied ginger@ 5 min
3 cinnamon sticks@ 5 min
1/2tsp whole cloves@ 5 min
1/2tsp nutmeg @ 5 min
1/2tsp Allspice@ 5 min

Yeast:
2 packs Safeale US-05

Ferment:
66 degrees for 2 weeks in primary and 3 weeks in secondary

Secondary:
2 Madagascar Vanilla Beans (split and scrapped and soaked in 4oz of vodka for 2 weeks)
1tsp pumpkin pie spice

First off they use 2 grains. My guess is 2 row and crystal, so I would nix the victory.

I would also nix the graham cracker in the mash. It won't carry though, so it's a waste.

I can tell you with 100% certainty your recipe is WAY too heavily spiced. I think you're better off not adding the spices during the boil (we know they don't) and only adding your tinctctures at bottling. I'd pull a measured amount and add measured amounts of spices until you're happy with the results then scale up.

I don't think there is ginger in there, but then again they add a spice blend not described on the label, so IDK... I do think it's nutmeg heavy though.

I don't think they use lactose. And there's no reason to add yeast nutrients.

I also THINK they go heavy on the brown sugar because it tends to add a rum flavor to the beer.

I also think they use a yeast strain like Ringwood (1187) to produce diacetyl then filter the beer before the yeast removes it. That's how they get that buttery flavor.

 

[homebrewed505]

First off they use 2 grains. My guess is 2 row and crystal, so I would nix the victory.

I would also nix the graham cracker in the mash. It won't carry though, so it's a waste.

I can tell you with 100% certainty your recipe is WAY too heavily spiced. I think you're better off not adding the spices during the boil (we know they don't) and only adding your tinctctures at bottling. I'd pull a measured amount and add measured amounts of spices until you're happy with the results then scale up.

I don't think there is ginger in there, but then again they add a spice blend not described on the label, so IDK... I do think it's nutmeg heavy though.

I don't think they use lactose. And there's no reason to add yeast nutrients.

I also THINK they go heavy on the brown sugar because it tends to add a rum flavor to the beer.

I also think they use a yeast strain like Ringwood (1187) to produce diacetyl then filter the beer before the yeast removes it. That's how they get that buttery flavor.

im just going off the recipe from way early on in the thread. I can nix the spices in the boil but others have had success. I have never made a spice tea. Others have said the graham cracker to the mash has had good results?? I add yeast nutrient to all my brews never hurt anything?

I am just confused. I am ready to brew and I like PUMKING so I just want to get close.

 

[insanim8er]

im just going off the recipe from way early on in the thread. I can nix the spices in the boil but others have had success. I have never made a spice tea. Others have said the graham cracker to the mash has had good results?? I add yeast nutrient to all my brews never hurt anything?

I am just confused. I am ready to brew and I like PUMKING so I just want to get close.

And it wasn't a clone.

Don't let me detour you. Experiment and do what you think is right. I've mashed with graham and it was definitely in the wort, but never made it to the final product. It gets blown out during fermentation. Plus, I highly doubt they actually use graham in the mash.

You can add nutrients, but it's pointless. All grain has all the nutrients the yeast need. If you're doing an all extract brew, then yes add it.

This thread has been going for several years and it hasn't been cloned. People claim they have it and it's debunked by others, so I don't think you're going to get a Pumking this first attempt.

 

[homebrewed505]

And it wasn't a clone. You can add nutrients, but it's pointless. All grain has all the nutrients the yeast need. If you're doing an all extract brew, then yes add it.

This thread has been going for several years and it hasn't been cloned. People claim they have it and it's debunked by others, so I don't think you're going to get a Pumking this first attempt.

I know im not gonna get one first try but i would like to be close. I just figured with the years this thread has someone can give me a decent recipe to follow that will get me close to Pumking. I have made pumpkin ales in the past with good success. I just like Pumking and would like to just get close without any nasty off flavors such as those associated with graham cracker extract. (which I already bought) but I wont use.

 

[emperor008]

Maybe someone can answer this. I've made three separate pumpkin beers over the years and as I keep checking recipes I've noticed many call for the adding of pumpkin to mash or full 60 minute boil. I made two batches in that method and they tasted awful (like when I made a cherry wheat and boiled the cherries for way too long!). I'm planning on making a butternut squash beer and the recipe calls for adding it while wort is starting to boil and then removing it for the rest of the boil. I'm worried that boiling the fruit (pumpkin) for the full 60 will lead to another disaster like I had before with the cherry. My pumpkins that came out good all were boiled at the end for like 8-10 minutes. Any one else concerned about the 60 min boil for pumpkin?

 

[insanim8er]

Maybe someone can answer this. I've made three separate pumpkin beers over the years and as I keep checking recipes I've noticed many call for the adding of pumpkin to mash or full 60 minute boil. I made two batches in that method and they tasted awful (like when I made a cherry wheat and boiled the cherries for way too long!). I'm planning on making a butternut squash beer and the recipe calls for adding it while wort is starting to boil and then removing it for the rest of the boil. I'm worried that boiling the fruit (pumpkin) for the full 60 will lead to another disaster like I had before with the cherry. My pumpkins that came out good all were boiled at the end for like 8-10 minutes. Any one else concerned about the 60 min boil for pumpkin?

I've mashed with pumpkin with great results. I can say that cigar city, who makes a phenomenal pumpkin beer called Good Gourd, puts their pumpkin into the fermenter 4 days after they pitch.

I haven't done that method because of the amount of trub it leaves. It's also why I don't like doing it in the boil.

Another method I haven't tried is adding it to a bag and putting it into the kettle while you're bringing your water to temp for the mash. Basically you're mashing with pumpkin water.

Not to sound like a jerk, but you're sure it's the pumpkin that made it not taste good? I'm just meaning there wasn't anything else that could've been the reason?

 

[emperor008]

Thanks for the help I was thinking maybe that was the case but it did it two straight times and it happened both times and then I made it in the boil at the end (same way other than that) and it came out ok. I'll give that way a try (putting it in mash water) and hope for the best.

 

[binarycataclysm]

This is my first post and first all grain attempt! I had my first imperial pumpking ale a couple of weeks ago and had to give this a go. After having sacrificed one of my sail boat's party coolers to make a mash tun that is. I used a recipe from eubrew on page three of this thread and made a couple of modifications. Slightly increased the 2-row, used goldings for bittering hops (2oz) per the suggestion of one of the local breweries brewmaster, 2oz of Saaz earlier in the boil to maintain similar ibu but hope to reduce the hop flavor. Roasted a pound of Maris otter with 2 29oz cans of pumpkin @ 350 for 1 hour hoping to get some graham cracker flavor and included this in a mesh bag in the mash to reduce the amount of trub. The following are my notes from brew day:

Imperial pumpkin ale: 10/14
First all grain attempt.
Recipe: cook 4 lbs canned pumpkin and 1 lb Maris otter @ 350F for 1 hour
Mash: 11.2 lbs 2-Row, 5lbs Maris Otter, 1Lb victory, 1Lb 4oz crystal 60L 168F water at dough in 30.31L of water. Target temp 152F for 1 hour. 2Gal sparge at 168F
Boil: 2oz Goldings @ 60min
2oz Saaz at 24min
1 whirlfloc at 10min
.25 tsp clove, .5 tsp nutmeg, 1tsp cinnamon at 5 min
Cooled with stainless wort chiller
Pitched a large helping of WLP002 at 76F, crashed the temp via swamp cooler to 64F, fermentation is vigorous at 12 hours after pitching yeast OG at 1.087

Any suggestions on modifications? I'll be sure to follow up with how it tastes when it is all said and done. I plan to add a spice tea similar to eubrew at bottling but less vanilla beans (3 at most) to secondary. I'll soak in Vodka for a week prior to pitching into the secondary.

Cheers!

 

[brewski09]

You can add nutrients, but it's pointless. All grain has all the nutrients the yeast need. If you're doing an all extract brew, then yes add it.

Nutrients are not pointless. Though grains should have all the necessary nutrients for yeast, I find my yeast to be happier with nutrient/energizer. If you brew with extracts, then you are still brewing with grains. Why would it be any different than all grain? You're basically being with someone else's condensed all grain batch.

 

[homebrewed505]

Nutrients are not pointless. Though grains should have all the necessary nutrients for yeast, I find my yeast to be happier with nutrient/energizer. If you brew with extracts, then you are still brewing with grains. Why would it be any different than all grain? You're basically being with someone else's condensed all grain batch.

I agree! Also anyone who has used butter flavor extract how much do I use put in secondary?? Pls help brewing tomorrow

 

[homebrewed505]

Nutrients are not pointless. Though grains should have all the necessary nutrients for yeast, I find my yeast to be happier with nutrient/energizer. If you brew with extracts, then you are still brewing with grains. Why would it be any different than all grain? You're basically being with someone else's condensed all grain batch.

I agree! Anyone who has used butter flavor extract how much do I need in secondary?

 

[homebrewed505]

I agree about the nutrients!

Anyone that has used butter flavor HOW MUCH DO I ADD TO SECONDARY? brewing tomorrow

 

[insanim8er]

Nutrients are not pointless. Though grains should have all the necessary nutrients for yeast, I find my yeast to be happier with nutrient/energizer. If you brew with extracts, then you are still brewing with grains. Why would it be any different than all grain? You're basically being with someone else's condensed all grain batch.

I should've said mainly extract kits...

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-9-1.html

Yeast cannot live on sugar alone. Yeast also need nitrogen, and amino and fatty acids to enable them to live and grow. The primary source for these building blocks is the free amino nitrogen (FAN) and lipids from the malted barley. Refined sugars like table sugar, corn sugar or candy sugar do not contain any of these nutrients. And, it is common for extracts (especially kit extracts targeted toward a particular style) to be thinned with refined sugars to lighten the color or reduce the cost of production. An all-malt beer has all the nutrition that the yeast will need for a good fermentation, but all-extract beers may not have sufficient FAN to promote adequate growth. Since malt extract is commonly used for yeast starters, it is always a good idea to add some yeast nutrients to ensure good yeast growth.

 

[brewski09]

I should've said mainly extract kits...

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-9-1.html

Yeast cannot live on sugar alone. Yeast also need nitrogen, and amino and fatty acids to enable them to live and grow. The primary source for these building blocks is the free amino nitrogen (FAN) and lipids from the malted barley. Refined sugars like table sugar, corn sugar or candy sugar do not contain any of these nutrients. And, it is common for extracts (especially kit extracts targeted toward a particular style) to be thinned with refined sugars to lighten the color or reduce the cost of production. An all-malt beer has all the nutrition that the yeast will need for a good fermentation, but all-extract beers may not have sufficient FAN to promote adequate growth. Since malt extract is commonly used for yeast starters, it is always a good idea to add some yeast nutrients to ensure good yeast growth.

I've seen extract kits with boosters in them off corn sugar and whatnot, bit that is such a small amount that it's not going to prohibit the year from growing. If your kit includes a reputable Edgard such as the Briess extracts in the brewers best kits, then you have sufficient FAN. Briess lists their FAN for the CBW Pisen Light at 3000, more that enough for yeast.

 

[homebrewed505]

What happened to this thread. It's about ST PUMKING CLONE? I need help it's that time of year for pumpkin ales where is all the advice?

 

[homebrewed505]

Ok here is my attempt at ST Pumking.


Just brewed today so dont have a FG or Abv. Smells and tastes amazing. I had a stuck sparge but I already collected 5.5 gallons and I had sparge water just in case. so i added an additional 2.25 gallons and ended up with 7.25 Pre-boil. My grains were about 60 degrees from sitting in my garage so I started with 180 degree water then added my baked pumpkin then let the water drop to 161. I added my grain and water temp dropped to 152. 2 degrees lower then I wanted so I drained about 1 gallon then heated it up to 180 and added it back in and raised temp to 154.


“ST Pumking”
OG: 1.072
FG: Unknown
ABV: UK

Mash:
Mashed 8.75 gallons of water 180 degrees added baked pumpkin then let cool to 161 then added grain. 154 for 90 min
sparged with 2.25 gallons

14lbs 2-Row
1lb Victory
3/4lb Crystal 60L
1 Box of Graham Crackers crushed
45oz. (3 small cans) pureed pumpkin coated in honey and baked 45 min @350, then added to 180 degree water.
1lb Rice Hulls

Boil:
3/4oz. Magnum hops @60 min
1/4oz. Sterling @ 15 min

3/4lb Sugar in Raw (added after hot break)
1/4lb light brown sugar (added after hot break)

8oz. Lactose @ 15 min
1/2tsp. Yeast nutrient @ 10 min
1tsp Irish moss@ 10 min
2Tbsp fine chopped candied ginger@ 5 min
3 cinnamon sticks@ 5 min
1/2tsp whole cloves@ 5 min
1/2tsp nutmeg @ 5 min
1/2tsp Allspice@ 5 min

Yeast:
2 packs Safeale US-05

Ferment:
73 degrees for 2 weeks in primary and 3 weeks in secondary

Secondary:
2 Madagascar Vanilla Beans (split and scrapped and soaked in 4oz of vodka for 2 weeks)
1tsp pumpkin pie spice (spice tea)



Notes:
8.75 G. mash water
2.25 G. sparge @ 170 (only because I didn’t have enough room in my mash tun to use all the water)
11 G. Total water
3.75 G. absorbed
7.25 G. Pre boil

*Stuck sparge (next time increase rice hulls to 1.5lb?)

 

[Chug]

What happened to this thread. It's about ST PUMKING CLONE? I need help it's that time of year for pumpkin ales where is all the advice?

There is no advice. It's Pumking, and it's very much a mystery what Southern Tier does to achieve that flavor.

I did however get the silver estates pumpkin pie extract recently and brewed up a nice pumpkin beer last weekend that consisted of Maris Otter, Biscuit, Crystal 60, Munich 10, molasses, and some Flaked Oats. Fermented with 1056. Added roasted sugar pumpkin to mash. Wasn't trying to achieve Pumking with the grainbill, just a nice bready, full bodied, and sweet base for a pumpkin beer. Didn't add any spices at all to the boil and will not secondary with any spices either.

15 IBU
Mashed at 158
OG: 1.079
Est FG: 1.023

After 3 weeks in primary I'm going to rack to keg and carbonate before I add any extract, vanilla, or spices. I then plan on pulling samples and adding the above mentioned until I get it right (Pumking or not), then scaling up and adding it to the entire keg. So far, I don't have any faith in the estates extract as I've added small amounts to pints pulled from my already kegged Imperial Pumpkin Pie Ale from here on HBT that I brewed back in August and it doesn't remind me of Pumking at all. But maybe the already present spices drown it out or alter it. I will post back with my results if anybody's interested.

 

[insanim8er]

There is no advice. It's Pumking, and it's very much a mystery what Southern Tier does to achieve that flavor.

I did however get the silver estates pumpkin pie extract recently and brewed up a nice pumpkin beer last weekend that consisted of Maris Otter, Biscuit, Crystal 60, Munich 10, molasses, and some Flaked Oats. Fermented with 1056. Added roasted sugar pumpkin to mash. Wasn't trying to achieve Pumking with the grainbill, just a nice bready, full bodied, and sweet base for a pumpkin beer. Didn't add any spices at all to the boil and will not secondary with any spices either.

15 IBU
Mashed at 158
OG: 1.079
Est FG: 1.023

After 3 weeks in primary I'm going to rack to keg and carbonate before I add any extract, vanilla, or spices. I then plan on pulling samples and adding the above mentioned until I get it right (Pumking or not), then scaling up and adding it to the entire keg. So far, I don't have any faith in the estates extract as I've added small amounts in pints pulled from my already kegged Imperial Pumpkin Pie Ale from here on HBT that I brewed back in August and it doesn't remind me of Pumking at all. But maybe the already present spices drown it out or alter it. I will post back with my results if anybody's interested.

I'm sure your first hunch is correct... But hell it'll probably be better than pumking anyway

 

[TimL]

I had a couple bottles of this last weekend and enjoyed it. I would say the dominant spice is nutmeg, whereas most pumpkin ales have cinnamon as the dominant spice flavour. I did not get much of a buttery taste, but I did get a slight silkyness in the mouthfeel.

If I were to brew this, I'd keep the grain bill simple (2 row, C60), and try the Ringwood yeast. I'd use a commercial pumpkin pie spice mixture, and add extra nutmeg (about 1/4 the amount of the pumpkin pie spice). Mash at 156.

I may give this a try, but I already have 5 gallons of pumpkin ale (based on reno_envy's Punkin' Ale clone), so I'm in no rush for more pumpkin ale.

 

[homebrewed505]

Anyone bottle this? If so anyone use brow sugar? I want to bottle about 2 gal. I only have regular table sugar, powdered sugar, brown sugar, and sugar in the raw. Any recommendations on the type of sugar

 

[pashley]

Ok gang, I've been holding off on posting this until I transferred into secondary to see how it tasted. Thursday night, I put a sample of Pumking side by side with my beer for a taste test. My three taste testers couldn't tell the difference.

OG: 1.080
FG (when added to secondary): 1.018
Approx: 8.3 % abv

I have to credit "Cannondale" for the original recipe that I copied. Here are the ingredients:

Fermentables:
14 lbs 2-Row American Pale Malt
1 lb Victory
12 oz Crystal 80L
2 lbs pumpkin (small Cinderella pumpkin, skinned, cubed and baked for 45 minutes at 350 degrees, mashed (little water added) and coated with honey, then cooked another 45 minutes at 350 - then cooled to 154 degrees to be added to mash)

3/4 lb Demerara Sugar (added to boil after hot break)
1/4 lb Light Brown Sugar (added to boil after hot break)

Hops:
3/4 oz Magnum Hops @ 60 min
1/4 oz Sterling @ 15 min

Additives:
8 oz Lactose @ 15 min
1/2 tsp Yeast Nutrient @ 10 min
1 Whirlfloc Tab @ 10 min
2 tbsp fine chopped candied ginger @ 5 min
3 Ceylon cinnamon sticks (real cinnamon sticks ordered online)
1/2 tsp whole cloves @ 5 min
1/2 tsp nutmeg @ 5 min
1/2 tsp Allspice @ 5 min

Added to Secondary:
2 Madagascar Vanilla Beans (2 fresh beans split down middle, scraped and soaked in 4 oz vodka for 2 weeks - Vodka added to secondary)
1 tsp. Pumpkin Pie Spice
1 tsp. Capella water soluble Graham Cracker Extract (purchased online and added to secondary)

Yeast:
2 packs Safeale US-05

Mashed at 154 degrees for 90 minutes (no sparge using 10 gallon Home Depot water cooler)

Boiled for 60 minutes.

Fermented at 66 degrees for 2 weeks in primary and 3 weeks in secondary.

Granted, the beer is still in secondary, and may taste a little different when it comes out, is conditioned and bottled, but if everything stays remotely the same . . . I'd call it an exact clone.

I've read the posts about replicating the "graham cracker" taste of Pumking. In my opinion, the secret is the Capella Graham Cracker Extract. Before it was added, the beer was very good, but missing something. After the addition, it was SPOT ON!!!

In fact, to make sure I have an adequate supply, I am planning on brewing a second batch to last through the holidays.

Thanks to Cannondale and all the other members of Homebrewtalk.com. This was my first attempt at home brewing and it turned out exceptional!! Couldn’t have done it without the advice of everyone on this forum.

Cheers!!!!!!

Ok so I brewed this recipe. I may be a little late to the game as pumpkin season is nearly over, but I can confirm that this recipe results in a very close Pumpking clone and is a stellar pumpkin beer regardless. The only changes I made: used bourbon insted of vodka for the tincture; fermented for 6 days and secondary for 10. Stayed true to the quoted recipe otherwise. Everyone who has pulled a glass from the keg has been blown away. The recipe is a bit involved, but well worth it.

 

[homebrewed505]

Pumking is sold out in my location! Anyone willing to and me a few? I can pay via pay pal or even trade some of my pumking clone when ready. Pls help!

 

[homebrewed505]

How close is the warlock taste to the pumking? Or are they completely different?