Southern Tier Pumking Clone??

[stblindtiger]

I'm on a tight budget so will need to find substitutes for the graham cracker extract and vanilla beans. I was hoping to see if anyone else had experience in mashing the crackers. Putting them in secondary defiantly sounds like a mess. For the vanilla bean substitute, I read online that for each bean you can use 1-2 teaspoons of pure vanilla extract so I'll probably use 1 teaspoon for 2.5 gallon.

I added 2 ounces of crushed crackers to my mash last year with no problems. It didn't give it enough graham cracker flavor though. I bought the extract this year, and still have a bottle of my clone attempt from last year. I also have a bottle of Pumking from last year left over plus some from this year as well. When my clone attempt from this year is ready I'm going to do a vertical of all four! I can't wait for that night!

I'm thinking that will be for after dinner on Thanksgiving!

 

[munklunk]

Everybody needs to buy their vanilla beans from topvanilla.com. $12 for 20 beans, and they are awesome. I've used them for years and spiced all of my pumpkin beers with the initial bulk order I got from that site. Also, be careful on how much graham cracker extract you use. A few drops goes a long way, so add, taste and go from there.

 

[Chug]

I really don't want to be the guy that says this, but the recipe on page 20 is not a Pumking clone. After having a couple of this years Pumkings, that recipe is way, way overspiced, amongst other problems. And I say this with all due respect towards the poster of that recipe. I'm only saying this to save any of you the trouble and money of brewing it and expecting it to be something that it isn't. It's not a bad or even mediocre pumpkin beer by any means, it's just not a Pumking "clone". I'm still going to give it a couple more weeks to condition (it has been in bottles for 3 weeks) and do a side by side comparison as a fair shot, but I already have a pretty good idea as to how that's going to turn out. I will post back with the results.

 

[BlakeL]

I really don't want to be the guy that says this, but the recipe on page 20 is not a Pumking clone. After having a couple of this years Pumkings, that recipe is way, way overspiced, amongst other problems. And I say this with all due respect towards the poster of that recipe. I'm only saying this to save any of you the trouble and money of brewing it and expecting it to be something that it isn't. It's not a bad or even mediocre pumpkin beer by any means, it's just not a Pumking "clone". I'm still going to give it a couple more weeks to condition (it has been in bottles for 3 weeks) and do a side by side comparison as a fair shot, but I already have a pretty good idea as to how that's going to turn out. I will post back with the results.

What would you recommend to get it closer to pumking? I drinking it for the first time right now and would like to get as close as possible.

 

[Chug]

What would you recommend to get it closer to pumking? I drinking it for the first time right now and would like to get as close as possible.

Well, that's the million dollar question. I'm not by any means a master recipe creator, but I have some idea's that I think could get that recipe closer. I'd have to at least experiment with what I have in mind before suggesting anything.

 

[passedpawn]

Well, that's the million dollar question. I'm not by any means a master recipe creator, but I have some idea's that I think could get that recipe closer. I'd have to at least experiment with what I have in mind before suggesting anything.

After 3 failed attempts at a clone, I'm not putting ANY cinnamon into my next one. No allspice either. Nutmeg and cloves are going on notice - they might get the ax.

Pumking is very creamy, sweet, vanilla, something graham-crackery. Another poster here PM'ed me with the recommendation of using hazelnut. I have some extract and smelled it and it is a great idea. It's possible that would work.

I've got a Pumking in the fridge now. Tonight, I'm going to pull out all my extracts and spices and my son and I are gonna have a session of "name that flavor".

 

[BlakeL]

I tried Pumking last night which was the first pumpkin beer I've ever had. I liked it but thought it was a little heavy handed on the spices. I'm probably going to find another fall beer to brew because I'm not sure I want 20+ bottles of a pumpkin beer.

 

[KingBrianI]

After a bit of experimentation today, I'm pretty sure I've found the secret to Pumking. The graham cracker flavor many attribute to the beer has always sounded a bit off to me. While I can see how people could describe it that way, a much better descriptor for me would be cap'n crunch cereal, as I've mentioned before. But what flavor extract do you use to get that cap'n crunch flavor? That was the big question. I'd spotted a butter and nut flavoring on a website last year and thought that might be somewhat close, but I didn't want to order up a bottle just on that hunch. But that flavoring is exactly what I saw when walking around the grocery store today. It's called "Vanilla butter and nut" flavoring, so I picked up a bottle to experiment with since it was only a few bucks. Undiluted, it smells just like buttercream frosting. Like cupcakes or something, basically. But when diluted in a beer, it has that exact same aroma as pumking. And it does the same thing to the flavor.

This stuff is STRONG, though. Like 1 drop in 12 oz is too much, strong. I recommend some of you do what I did and pick up a bottle to experiment with. I added it to my cream ale at about a drop per 12 oz and it was too strong. When I had drunk that mostly down I topped it off again with cream ale and that's when it seemed just right. You basically want to dip the tip of a toothpick in the stuff and swirl that around in your glass to get the right amount. But when you hit the right amount, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. I think this will get you closer to that Pumking flavor than anything else you can do.

 

[MisterTipsy]

Pumking tastes like they racked on Dutch Windmill Cookies.

which contain cinnamon, nutmeg, cloves, almonds and probably some almond extract.

 

[TyTanium]

...But that flavoring is exactly what I saw when walking around the grocery store today. It's called "Vanilla butter and nut" flavoring, so I picked up a bottle to experiment with since it was only a few bucks.

This one?: http://www.mccormick.com/Products/E...cts/Imitation-Vanilla-Butter--Nut-Flavor.aspx

I can't imagine ever putting something like that in my beer, but hey, if you say it's good, I'll give it a shot. Pumking does have a pretty heavy artificial aroma to it, haha. Thanks.

 

[KingBrianI]

This one?: http://www.mccormick.com/Products/E...cts/Imitation-Vanilla-Butter--Nut-Flavor.aspx

I can't imagine ever putting something like that in my beer, but hey, if you say it's good, I'll give it a shot. Pumking does have a pretty heavy artificial aroma to it, haha. Thanks.

That's the exact one I bought. I recommend trying it in a single pint of one of your beers first before adding it to a whole batch, but to my palate, this is as close as you can get to pumking.

 

[MisterTipsy]

Go the natural route and add a stick of butter to the boil?

 

[passedpawn]

I just did a test with my son and his GF. We had an open bottle of Pumking, and I brought out 3 extracts. I asked them (and me) to score them on how much they smell like Pumking 0-10, where 10 would be a direct match.

Ethan: Graham Cracker: 3 Almond: 5 Hazelnut: 5
Caitlin: Graham Cracker: 2 Almond: 7 Hazelnut: 8
Passedpawn: Graham Cracker: 3 Almond: 2 Hazelnut: 8
​

If anyone has a bottle of Pumking and some hazelnut extract, give it a try. Amazing.

One thing that's obvious, when you smell the extract next to the beer, it's clear there's some nutmeg (and maybe other spices) in there.

 

[MisterTipsy]

I doubt they used hazlebutt. I don't like hazlebutt extract and I think Pumking tastes good.

If it was my brew, I'd try cinnamon, nutmeg, clove in the boil and then a blend of graham cracker crumbs and almond paste (marzipan) in the secondary. It wouldn't be a clone, but it might taste good.

Maybe some mace too. The spice, not the spray.

 

[Chug]

After a bit of experimentation today, I'm pretty sure I've found the secret to Pumking. The graham cracker flavor many attribute to the beer has always sounded a bit off to me. While I can see how people could describe it that way, a much better descriptor for me would be cap'n crunch cereal, as I've mentioned before. But what flavor extract do you use to get that cap'n crunch flavor? That was the big question. I'd spotted a butter and nut flavoring on a website last year and thought that might be somewhat close, but I didn't want to order up a bottle just on that hunch. But that flavoring is exactly what I saw when walking around the grocery store today. It's called "Vanilla butter and nut" flavoring, so I picked up a bottle to experiment with since it was only a few bucks. Undiluted, it smells just like buttercream frosting. Like cupcakes or something, basically. But when diluted in a beer, it has that exact same aroma as pumking. And it does the same thing to the flavor.

This stuff is STRONG, though. Like 1 drop in 12 oz is too much, strong. I recommend some of you do what I did and pick up a bottle to experiment with. I added it to my cream ale at about a drop per 12 oz and it was too strong. When I had drunk that mostly down I topped it off again with cream ale and that's when it seemed just right. You basically want to dip the tip of a toothpick in the stuff and swirl that around in your glass to get the right amount. But when you hit the right amount, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. I think this will get you closer to that Pumking flavor than anything else you can do.

I like where this thread is going. I was personally thinking about trying Capella's Butter flavor drops in conjunction with the graham cracker flavor drops to see where that went. Pumking is definitely not a spicy beer, it's more buttery, creamy, with just a touch of pumpkin pie spice. But the grain bill from page 20 also needs some modifying. Pumking is a fairly light, yellowish orange color. The clone I made was dark ruby with a touch of orange. I wouldn't use crystal 80.

From Southern Tier's website: ABV: 8.6%
FERMENTATION: Ale yeast, two types of malt, two types of hops, pumpkin
COLOR: Deep copper
EFFERVESCENCE: Medium carbonation
NOSE: Pumpkin, pie spices, buttery crust, vanilla, roasted pecans
FLAVOR: Malty sweetness, vanilla, clove, allspice, cinnamon, nutmeg, pie crust
BITTERNESS: Low
BODY: Medium-light

 

[MisterTipsy]

I bought a pumpking. It still has a nose of Windmill cookies and a little pumpkin.

However, I do taste the artificial butter flavor. I smell it too. So the guy who said vanilla butter nut extract could be on to something.

As a matter of fact, this gross artificial butter taste just ruined the whole beer for me. Seriously, this beer sucks now!

 

[MisterTipsy]

The color of my pumking this year is much lighter than I remember. It's not even light orange. It's a darker blonde.

 

[MisterTipsy]

That's the exact one I bought. I recommend trying it in a single pint of one of your beers first before adding it to a whole batch, but to my palate, this is as close as you can get to pumking.

I think you are right. I haven't tasted the vanilla butter nut extract, but what I am tasting and smelling is fake butter nut with some spices. It even has the not so great aftertaste associated with those types of bakers extracts.

I've only had pumpking once before and I thought it was great. Now I'm somewhat repulsed and won't be buying it next year.

 

[MisterTipsy]

This just in: Preliminary lab tests indicate Pumking has enough diacetyl to kill a plow horse !

It's time to find a new pumpkin beer.

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I don't think I would add a McCormick Imitation extract to a batch of brew again. Used imitation vanilla once in my early days, it went from good to bad with little aging. Need to at least use a pure extract.

 

[MZRIS]

Go the natural route and add a stick of butter to the boil?

I doubt they used hazlebutt. I don't like hazlebutt extract and I think Pumking tastes good.

If it was my brew, I'd try cinnamon, nutmeg, clove in the boil and then a blend of graham cracker crumbs and almond paste (marzipan) in the secondary. It wouldn't be a clone, but it might taste good.

Maybe some mace too. The spice, not the spray.

I bought a pumpking. It still has a nose of Windmill cookies and a little pumpkin.

However, I do taste the artificial butter flavor. I smell it too. So the guy who said vanilla butter nut extract could be on to something.

As a matter of fact, this gross artificial butter taste just ruined the whole beer for me. Seriously, this beer sucks now!

The color of my pumking this year is much lighter than I remember. It's not even light orange. It's a darker blonde.

I think you are right. I haven't tasted the vanilla butter nut extract, but what I am tasting and smelling is fake butter nut with some spices. It even has the not so great aftertaste associated with those types of bakers extracts.

I've only had pumpking once before and I thought it was great. Now I'm somewhat repulsed and won't be buying it next year.

This just in: Preliminary lab tests indicate Pumking has enough diacetyl to kill a plow horse !

It's time to find a new pumpkin beer.

ROFLMAO - What a train wreck.

 

[MZRIS]

I had my first pumking yesterday and it was delicious! Served chilled in a goblet with a Cinnamon, Brown Sugar & Crushed Graham cracker crumb rim job - heaven!!!

 

[MisterTipsy]

I must have already been drunk when I tried it and liked it last year. I think I rated it 3.7/5.0 and said plenty of good things about it.

Now it's a 2.0/5.0. I drank it this time with a fresh palate and literally thought it was gross. I almost didn't finish it.

 

[MZRIS]

Edit: first pumking of the year**

 

[ErieShores]

I must have already been drunk when I tried it and liked it last year. I think I rated it 3.7/5.0 and said plenty of good things about it.

Now it's a 2.0/5.0. I drank it this time with a fresh palate and literally thought it was gross. I almost didn't finish it.

Seriously, you need to get lost, start your own thread on how you hate it. You've made your point.

 

[SpeedYellow]

Seriously, you need to get lost, start your own thread on how you hate it. You've made your point.

+1. MisterTipsy, we get that you dislike Pumking. You can move along now.

 

[TyTanium]

I've found Tipsy's experience helpful. I use to love Pumking, but now sipping with artificial extract in mind, that's ALL I can smell from that beer, which is unfortunate. I will be brewing mine sans extract I think.

 

[MisterTipsy]

I wasn't planning on saying anything else.

 

[MZRIS]

i bet he hates the butter sauce on the popcorn at AMC theaters too

 

[MisterTipsy]

I don't eat popcorn. Not even with real butter.