So....

[CodeRage]

Maybe it is just a North Eastern thing... Seems like every where else people dont vilianize fire arms as much. You have to remember they are only tools designed to punch holes. What you decided to punch holes into is your issue. Me, I like punching holes into tasty critters and paper targets. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[the_bird]

OK, guys, say it with me...

"This thread is not about gun control - it's about how issues LIKE gun control tend to provoke very strong reactions."

You're just proving my point.

 

[c.n.budz]

Maybe it is just a North Eastern thing... Seems like every where else people dont vilianize fire arms as much. You have to remember they are only tools designed to punch holes. What you decided to punch holes into is your issue. Me, I like punching holes into tasty critters and paper targets. Nothing wrong with that.

Now you're just stereotyping Northeasterners. I'm from the Northeast and own multiple guns as do many of my friends and family members.

 

[Lil' Sparky]

This is EXACTLY what I mean.

To you guys, it's completely self-evident that guns ought to remain accessible (at least to citizens who show themselves to be responsible).

That's NOT the opinion of EVERYONE in this society, and many people feel very strongly on the other side of the issue (more guns being out there overall means that more find their ways into the hands of bad guys via theft, found by kids in the parent's closet, etc.) Note that I'm not taking a stance on this issue myself; I would never keep a gun in my house, but the whole live-and-let-live thing, you know?

You guys seem to feel something very personal about this issue; would you consider your right to bear arms, with mininal restriction, to be a fundamental part of what it means to be an American/Texan? Those are the kinds of issues that become heated, personal, and devisive.

And frankly, the last thing I was to do in a discussion about why certain topics become such hot-button topics is to start a fight about guns (especially since I know you're armed! )

Bird, once again, the voice of reason. It's really unbecoming, you know.

I've been pretty "Bubba" in my comments on this thread - just feeling cheeky today, I guess. But you're right. There are such diverse views throughout our society (not all of them right, mind you) and some things are so ingrained that opposing views are easily taken personally. It's hard sometimes not to lay into someone who has made a retarded comment about something you feel strongly about.

I think the mods do a good job of keeping itchy topics under control.

 

[Orfy]

If you shoot an intruder here you go to jail.

I would shoot one so I don't have a gun.

Not that I'd have a choice anyway.

 

[Lil' Sparky]

Orfy, don't get us started on your wacked out laws over there!!!

 

[olllllo]

People on one side of the issue will see this as either humourous or disturbing.
On the other side it will be viewed as useful or gimmicky.

http://www.the-backup.com/

EDIT: More!!!

http://www.glamguns.com/hk47.html

That is the definition of a devisive issue.
Devisive issues are fine if the arguments are kept non-personal, on-topic and cordial.
Good luck with that!
What's the name of that internet corrolary? "The longer a thread is open, the more likey someone will compare something to Hitler or Nazis"

 

[Orfy]

Orfy, don't get us started on your wacked out laws over there!!!

Bet we have more than you.

 

[Ryanh1801]

If you shoot an intruder here you go to jail.

I would shoot one so I don't have a gun.

Not that I'd have a choice anyway.

Just wondering, say if someone did break into a house in England and shoot at someone, you defend your self with what ever, and they die. Are charges still filed? Just wondering. Just wondering I guess if circumstances play any role or if it is cut and dry.

 

[Orfy]

You are not allowed to kill people.

If my dogs bite an intruder they can prosecute me.

They will get free legal aid.

I would have to pay for a lawyer.

If an intruder cuts themselves on barb wire I can be prosecuted.

If an intruder enters with a knife and I try to stab them.......

You get the picture.

I am supposed to call the police who may not turn up and just wait. I am not allowed to attack them.
All I can do is defend my self using minimal reasonable force.

If I attack them I WILL be prosecuted for assault and battery.

Do you want me to carry on?

 

[CodeRage]

Now you're just stereotyping Northeasterners. I'm from the Northeast and own multiple guns as do many of my friends and family members.

Fair enough. It sounds like you may be the minority though
I didnt mean for it to sound that way to be honest. What I meant was that it is my impression that gun control is a hot issue in that region.

 

[Ryanh1801]

You are not allowed to kill people.

If my dogs bite an intruder they can prosecute me.

They will get free legal aid.

I would have to pay for a lawyer.

If an intruder cuts themselves on barb wire I can be prosecuted.

If an intruder enters with a knife and I try to stab them.......

You get the picture.

I am supposed to call the police who may not turn up and just wait. I am not allowed to attack them.
All I can do is defend my self using minimal reasonable force.

If I attack them I WILL be prosecuted for assault and battery.

Do you want me to carry on?

Ouch. And I thought the U.S. was bad when it came to criminal rights.

 

[CodeRage]

You are not allowed to kill people.

If my dogs bite an intruder they can prosecute me.

They will get free legal aid.

I would have to pay for a lawyer.

If an intruder cuts themselves on barb wire I can be prosecuted.

If an intruder enters with a knife and I try to stab them.......

You get the picture.

I am supposed to call the police who may not turn up and just wait. I am not allowed to attack them.
All I can do is defend my self using minimal reasonable force.

If I attack them I WILL be prosecuted for assault and battery.

Do you want me to carry on?

Come on over! We got room for yah over here!

Hell, they passed the 'castle doctrine' down here in Florida a few years ago. Basically says, if you break into my house you do so at risk of your own peril. We are no longer required to attempt to retreat before applying force. How ever, if viable it is always the better option.

 

[Cheesefood]

I made one comment in that thread, then stayed away from it so I don't know how bad it got. My comment is that "guns" are one of those topics that make corporate internet censors very nervous. It CAN be worse than pr0n in many cases simply because of the incidents that have happened.

I'm not trying to open up the whole "Are we more or less safe if we carry them" argument, I'm just stating a fact that many companies would be NERVOUS if gun talk started showing up on someone's internet report.

Also, Tx has a perfectly useable gun forum site already.

 

[Seabee John]

OK Folks, this is an attempt to bring us all together.
I'll put it this way, for those of you who brew beer, but don't like guns...

Befriend one of us who brew beer and love guns, for it is us, who will defend (with force if needed) our rights to own guns and brew beer.

This site is about beer, but if you look at the entire political spectrum... "They" are banning transfat for goodness sake... Let me choose! These people believe that prohibition didn't work because they didn't do it right in the 20's, not because it was wrong to take a freedom away. Today, the french fry.. tomorrow YOUR home brew

Save the Brew... buy a gun
or at leased befriend someone who has one.

 

[Cheesefood]

Save the Brew... buy a gun
or at leased befriend someone who has one.

I support the police, even when they're against me.
I support the armed forces, even when I'm against war.
I like guns, and I think shooting them is fun.
I'll never own one.

I believe guns should be legal, and bullets should cost $5,000 each.
I believe the only people who need automatic weapons are those in the forces.
I believe that if you want to own a gun, you should join the armed forces or the police.

I believe gun manufacturers need to take more public accountability and stop hiding behind the second ammendment.
I believe that everyone who owns a gun should be forced to have gun-owners insurance which would pay for damage or injury inflicted by the weapon.
I believe people should have to register their guns and, once a year, bring them to a local place to show they still have ownership of the weapon.
I believe guns, like cars and houses, should have a title. You should not be able to sell it without transferring the title.

These are just my beliefs.

 

[rohanski]

From Texas:

If someone breaks into my house I'm going for the 44 mag. before the phone to call 911. We can sort it out later at the police station.

 

[TxBrew]

"I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

 

[rohanski]

Well said TxBrew.

 

[Cheesefood]

"I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

"I'd rather stay out of that situation all together, like 99.999% of America and almost 100% of the rest of the world."

 

[Seabee John]

I support the police, even when they're against me.
I support the armed forces, even when I'm against war.
I like guns, and I think shooting them is fun.
I'll never own one.

I believe guns should be legal, and bullets should cost $5,000 each.
I believe the only people who need automatic weapons are those in the forces.
I believe that if you want to own a gun, you should join the armed forces or the police.

I believe gun manufacturers need to take more public accountability and stop hiding behind the second ammendment.
I believe that everyone who owns a gun should be forced to have gun-owners insurance which would pay for damage or injury inflicted by the weapon.
I believe people should have to register their guns and, once a year, bring them to a local place to show they still have ownership of the weapon.
I believe guns, like cars and houses, should have a title. You should not be able to sell it without transferring the title.

These are just my beliefs.

It's good you have beliefs, beliefs are what make you human, or even alive for that fact. It's a combination of your experiences and your fears, mixed with a little bit of hope that makes up your beliefs.

If you look above, almost every belief you list requires action on the part of the government. It's all about the government restricting what you can and cannot do. You even state "I believe that if you want to own a gun, you should join the armed forces or the police." which tells me that "the government" is the only group of people you trust to defend you. But the rest of your fellow citizens are not worthy...hmmm... the government IS rule by citizens.

I'm not telling you that you are bad, I'm not calling you names, I'm not threatening you in any fashion. To the contrary, I've given the last 16 years of my life (11 active duty and 5 reserve) defending YOUR BELIEFS. All I ask of you is to live your life the way you see fit and let me live mine the way I see fit. We have laws to take care of the fringe... no need to un-weave the fabric of our nation.

 

[Brewing Clamper]

Umm... OP, I think it's your turn to delete your thread...

 

[NateKerx]

"They" are banning transfat for goodness sake... Let me choose!

Your talking about "banning" a substance thats made millions of children morbidly obese because they in their families had it snuck into their pre packaged food to boost flavor and make an addictive product. Thats what the FDA is supposed to do, stick up for people being poisoned.

Lucky for you, to my knowledge, it will not be illegal to possess or synthesize trans fats, so a firearm may not be necessary to defend this particular god-given right.

 

[TxBrew]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article2409817.ece

Good article about gun control.

I highly suspect anyone with pro-gun control views have actually researched the topic in depth because once you do the facts don't favor gun control. I guess though in some search for a phantom utopia gun control sounds good in theory, well maybe for the Government more so, a non-armed populace is a dream for aspiring tyrants.

 

[CodeRage]

"I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

That is my favorite. First time I heard it was in a concealed carry class, really drove the point home.

 

[Seabee John]

Your talking about "banning" a substance thats made millions of children morbidly obese because they in their families had it snuck into their pre packaged food to boost flavor and make an addictive product. Thats what the FDA is supposed to do, stick up for people being poisoned.

Lucky for you, to my knowledge, it will not be illegal to possess or synthesize trans fats, so a firearm may not be necessary to defend this particular god-given right.

What ever happened to the terms "buyer beware" or "personal responsibility?" Since when were those parents forced to feed their OWN children prepackaged food without reading the ingredients first? You wouldn't feed your kid your own alcohol would you? It's not good for them, but it's ok for you to choose to drink it. You make it... it's YOUR choice... AND responsibility.

 

[Flyin' Lion]

I believe guns should be legal, and bullets should cost $5,000 each.

I feel the same way about cell phones. Minutes should not be so cheap, then we wouldn't have people talking and driving at the same time.

 

[Whiskey]

I usually do not touch gun control arguments with a ten foot pole, for the very reasons that the_bird mentioned.

However, I served for 10 years in the Army as an Infantryman, so I'm quite familiar with various firearms, both domestic and foreign. I also did about 2 years as a Police Officer, so I'm pretty versed in the laws surrounding guns. I own guns, I grew up with guns, but I agree that not everyone should be able to just go out an buy one, regardless whether they have committed crimes or not. An idiot is an idiot.

I believe the issue is not the gun laws, but enforcing the ones already in place. It is also a fact that even if tomorrow the government decided to ban all firearms, guns would still be prevalent. Criminals would not give up their firearms. You can dig around the news for any country that has complete gun bans and find murders by firearm.

I hate to lean towards any side, however, a firearm has never jumped out of a box and killed someone it is the moron hold the firearm.

Here's a challenge for you, dig around and find a single state where firearm (intentional or accidental) deaths are more per capita then vehicular deaths. You won't find one. But I bet there are not many folks who would vote for a vehicle ban.

To Seebee John: That is one of the biggest problems we have in the US, no one (or very few) takes accountability for their actions, it is always someone else's fault. It's the gun manufacturers for not putting big freakin letters on the side of guns saying "this may kill you or someone else", it's the NRA's fault for believing that every citizen has a right to bear arms, its McDonald's fault for making you fat, it's the fashion industries fault that models are to skinny, etc ad nauseam....

On the idea that I should delete the thread, why? There is nothing wrong with discussion, especially in this forum. Although the 1st amendment does not apply to a privately owned forum, folks should be able to express their views. If folks get childish and start name calling or slandering another member for their beliefs said individuals should consider never visiting internet forums, or maybe even leaving their houses for fear of someone having an opinion or world view different from their own.

Anyways, let's keep this civil and please if you are going to make a point an use numbers or statistics, make sure
they are correct.

EDIT: By all means, if the mods think this gets out of hand delete it.

 

[NateKerx]

What ever happened to the terms "buyer beware" or "personal responsibility?" Since when were those parents forced to feed their OWN children prepackaged food without reading the ingredients first? You wouldn't feed your kid your own alcohol would you? It's not good for them, but it's ok for you to choose to drink it. You make it... it's YOUR choice... AND responsibility.

I understand your point and I do think Americans have gone to incredible lengths to shirk their responsibilities as parents/consumers. However... I don't think there is anything wrong with sending a stronger message in the form of a transfat ban, especially considering the rate of heart disease in this country, and especially since reducing unnecessary illness through better diet makes a universal health care system more feasible

 

[Yuri_Rage]

On the idea that I should delete the thread, why? There is nothing wrong with discussion, especially in this forum. Although the 1st amendment does not apply to a privately owned forum, folks should be able to express their views. If folks get childish and start name calling or slandering another member for their beliefs said individuals should consider never visiting internet forums, or maybe even leaving their houses for fear of someone having an opinion or world view different from their own.

You don't need to be responsible for deleting the thread, the mods will take care of that if/when the need arises. There is a pretty strict policy around here to stay away from political topics. Many threads have been deleted or closed as a result. The reason for the policy is that politics easily divide people who might otherwise be friends. If we avoid sensitive and argumentative issues that have nothing to do with beer, there will be less adversarial relationships here, and we will more likely share ideas that are more relevant to the forum's main topic: beer!