Smokey bars

[unionrdr]

It can also be looked at as discrimination against a minority group as a whole. Depends on how many smokers/non smokers in a given area. I understand the situation,but it's like trampling my rights to get what you want. I can go a while without smoking,sure. But banning smoking virtually everywhere is just wrong.
They don't care about your health,they're saving money on electricity for ventilation,& money on fire/hazard insurance. The insurance companies don't pay out as much for that sort of thing. They're happy. The business owner winds up saving on operating costs after the initial loss of business. They win,I loose. So I just take it home,to hell with the lot of them.
There's a group that's even trying to ban smoking at home when you have children. I remember them even trying to ban smoking in cars. Such narrow mindedness amazes me. There are far more important things to worry about in this country. Do your own thing,but don't stop me from doing mine. Because then,you're taking away MY freedoms. Never an easy question,is it?

 

[Airborneguy]

I hate to say it, but it is an easy question because of the reams of information relating to the detriments of second-hand smoke to health. Anything taking away individual rights (smoking in your car, home, etc.) I would be completely against. But with all of the info on what second-hand smoke can do to people, I feel no sympathy for smokers losing their "right" to force it on us. I smoked for almost 14 years by the way. Quitting is entirely possible if you really want to do it.

 

[unionrdr]

It comes down to majority rules. Doesn't mean I have to like it. Or quit because society & the government want me to for their convenience/health. It's always gunna be a double edged sword. I just think there's a better way to do this. Whatever that might be?...

 

[tnaratil]

I think it should be up to the business. If the bartender doesn't like it move to a new job.

But on a personal level, around here the best our bars have to offer are Coors, Bud or the high end Laabots for $5 w/tip. The combo of a Coors product and a smoke screen bar = hangover death. The wifey and I designed a beer drinking room around our kegerator and we rarely leave the house on the weekend haha. Your own beer, your own music and a song also is $1 a play.

 

[Hang Glider]

I think it should be up to the business. If the bartender doesn't like it move to a new job.

and in this day and age, jobs are a dime a dozen...



It is about restricting freedoms and it isn't...because this isn't whether the government is restricting your ability to choose a KitKat or Twizzlers. It's general public health that's on the line.

And...if you smoke in your car and you have babies...well you're not very considerate of others, then, are you? Smoking without kids, who cares, but who looks out for the children if you blatantly refuse to?

 

[rycov]

i just recently gave up smoking. i'm glad (for personal reasons) that smoking is now banned in most bars (although its still up to the owner here in SC). it makes it that much easier for me not to have a cigarette (two months now!! ), but i do think that it should be left up to the owner.

 

[GodsStepBrother]

I am a smoker and I hate smoking indoors. It’s dirty and nasty no doubt, and I am all for not allowing smokers inside. It’s like having the toilet in the middle of the bar, and not off to the side.

As another poster mentioned; I love going outside to smoke. The cold weather makes me enjoy it more for some reason and I generally like to be outside. Granted the weather in my city allows this almost year round.

Things get out of hand very quickly though. It is scary to think the place I work at now does not allow smoking anywhere on their property. Even if you are on the other side of the parking lot you cannot smoke. I take it there main reason for this is 3rd hand smoke coming in the building, but even then everybody who smokes just goes to the side takes one step out of the parking lot and lights up, even the managers do. Pair this up with the ads they are trying to make companies put on their packages, it is going to be illegal in no time at this rate. One day my grandchild will ask me how it was to smoke when I was younger.

 

[Pumbaa]

owners choice, plan and simple . . . if I dont like it I can go someplace else and if they cant get employees or customers they need to figure out a new plan

 

[davefleck]

It can also be looked at as discrimination against a minority group as a whole. Depends on how many smokers/non smokers in a given area. I understand the situation,but it's like trampling my rights

That is one of the most absurd things I've read here. Smokers are under no conditions classified as a minority group and thus due some sort of protection.

 

[broadbill]

I think it should be up to the business. If the bartender doesn't like it move to a new job.

Let consider an similar situation: If a factory worker's job is in a warehouse where there are asbestos fibers floating through the air (or toxic chemicals, etc), that worker should have to find a job in a safer environment instead of expecting to have access to the proper safety equipment or expect the factory owners to make the place safe for their employees?

 

[Hang Glider]

Yes, sometimes regulation is a good thing.

While populist anti-regulation sentiments abound, we cannot trust that all business owners are honest, self-policing and are looking out for the welfare of their employees.

Mercury is being dumped by the trainload into the Savannah River here by Olin chemical. But it's below the legal threshold... wait, what??

and we are talking about the health and welfare of fellow human beings above our own needs and desires.

 

[broadbill]

Yes, sometimes regulation is a good thing.

No its not....when we have regulations, the terrorists win.

 

[subliminalurge]

I can understand a smoking ban in restaurants. I whole-heartedly disagreee with it, but I can understand it.

But in bars? It's not like they're exactly health clubs, with or without smoking.

The argument about the employees might hold water if the overwhelming majority of them weren't slipping out back for a smoke on their break anyway.

Back when the smoking ban debate was going on in Iowa, there were many bars that went smoke-free. They went back very quickly. Why? They lost too many customers. Sure, there may only be 1 in 5 smokers across America as a whole, but that's entirely irrelevant. The numbers are much, much different amongst Americans who are also regular bar patrons. And it's the regulars that keep bars in business, not the people who go to one 2 or 3 times a year for a special night out....

I've not had a single bar owner tell me that they didn't lose business as a result of the smoking ban. And I've talked to a lot of them. And they didn't lose business over a period of time, they lost it that very weekend, the first weekend after the ban went into effect, and it's stayed down ever since.

"But the economy!" you say. Well, yeah, the economy sucks, but history tells us that bars generally do BETTER business when times are hard. Depressed people drink more. People under a lot of stress drink more. Go figure. Who woulda thunk it?

All those arguments aside, though, the part that really gets to me is the undeniable fact that the ****ing government already has their nose in WAY too much of my business as it is. I have zero tolerance for them getting even more involved in my day to day life, for any reason, regardless of what the arguments may be. I'm 40 years old, I don't need a ******* mother****ing babysitter.

And don't even get me started on smoking bans in OUTDOOR areas! Anyone who thinks those are a good idea is just whiny-ass ***** and would probably be better off just staying home where they can carefully control every aspect of their environment.

 

[davefleck]

Almost every bar owner gripes about lost revenue. Our city's ban is 1 year on the books. The first month many had lower revenue but it has climbed in each case since and are now at greater seasonal levels.

 

[unionrdr]

I have to agree with subliminal urge. It backs up my thoughts on the subject. I'm 55 & IDGARA!! A bar is a place to relax,maybe even where everybody does know your name. And yes,I actually have drunk at the cheers bar set in the Hollywood museum. It's a fully functioning bar where we drank with the one Bridges son that was in Rocket Man!! Drank beer,& watched football. Great time.

 

[emjay]

A bar is a place to relax

I agree. Which is why I'm thrilled that inconsiderate addicts (let's be real... that's what most smokers are) are no longer able to make me choke on their own damn poison.

 

[subliminalurge]

I agree. Which is why I'm thrilled that inconsiderate addicts (let's be real... that's what most smokers are) are no longer able to make me choke on their own damn poison.

She says as she chugs down her equally toxic poison.

*******, I do love me some hypocrisy from time to time!!!!

Now this is getting fun.

 

[emjay]

She says as she chugs down her equally toxic poison.

*******, I do love me some hypocrisy from time to time!!!!

Not hypocritical. I'm not picking up my beer and throwing it in people's faces...

Also, I really don't drink that much. Even on the days I do drink, it's one or two beers, which is considered to beneficial overall. But that's irrelevant. Point is, if I have a beer, I am the only one consuming it. If I have a cigarette, the whole room is now partaking.

 

[rycov]

So we have these laws sweeping the nation that have nothing to do with what the majority want, just politicians cowtowing to a VERY vocal, VERY bitchy, VERY whiny minority.

first i'd like to say that i laughed the whole time i was reading this post. (not sure if it was with you or not)

but to this point. i would think that if politicians were catering to a minority then they would stand to gain something from it (like money from tobacco companies?). what would they gain from helping the minority?

 

[Pappers_]

Subliminal, your name calling and vitrol-filled post is obnoxious, IMHO.

 

[rycov]

yeah, thats why i was laughing. i thought it had to be a joke. this guy was RAGING. i felt like i was getting eye raped just reading it.

 

[rycov]

call me simple but if i were lookin' fer votes i'd be tryin' to make the majoruhty happy.

 

[subliminalurge]

Ya know, I'm not quite old enough to consider myself "old" just yet. I'm only 40.

And this conversation is happening on a message board dedicated to a hobby that was a federal crime just a few short years ago, back when I was in school.

And yet there are people, even here, who not only welcome government intrusion into their day to day lives, but actually ask for more.

And this is all happening in a place that would not even be legal if it weren't for the government backing off just a little bit, on this one small issue. But people, even here, just want them to dive right back in.

That makes me sad. Very, very sad.

That's all I have to say. I'm done with this discussion.

 

[Pappers_]

Good. Thank you.

It was meant to be, to people of your ilk....

Yeah, my 'ilk' are people who don't call each other names on a homebrewing forum. You might try it. Name calling and bluster are either a sign that someone doesn't have much an argument, or doesn't have the ability to persuasively make the argument.

 

[Airborneguy]

I wonder if cigarrettes are going to be as important as they are now to this dude when he's dying of cancer?

 

[Homercidal]

She says as she chugs down her equally toxic poison.

*******, I do love me some hypocrisy from time to time!!!!

Now this is getting fun.

Seriously? You think sitting next to someone who's having a beer is THE SAME as sitting in a smoke filled bar??

I'm not even responding further.

Ok, I get the point. Honestly, though, is there no way to make your point without calling people names? That's generally frowned upon here.

I know the bar downtown had a big slowdown when the ban took effect, but I think they have rebounded to some degree at least.

Then I look at some of the "nice" places, like brewpubs, and I see expansion in their taprooms. All of them that I can think of anyway.

It would be interesting to have some comparison numbers to see how things really are. I think they younger people are less likely to want to hang out at a smoke filled bar. They just want to drop X and party.

 

[critch]

in the uk the bans been in force for a few years, its great! bars are now much nicer places to be. true, the uk pub market is having a rough old time of it at the moment, but thats down to many other reasons(pubco's excessive tax, everyone wanting a slice of the pie, supermarkets selling 24 500ml cans for £10...) not just the ban wish it had started 20 years earlier

and yes im a smoker...

 

[broadbill]

A bar is a place to relax,maybe even where everybody does know your name.

...and you need to smoke to have this type of atmosphere, or to participate in it?

I think this is more your perception of what make a good bar atmosphere what actually makes it good.

 

[cricky101]

Wow. What are the requirements for someone to be banned from HBT? Numerous instances of "namecalling, obscenities, and trolling" aren't enough?

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Usually when I add my 2 cents anywhere the conversation dies down, so here I am Feel the power of my thread killing banana.

Anyway, kidding aside when I was a smoker I had very definite opinions on smoking bans and the way they limit individual freedoms. I grew up with 2 smokers (going home to see the fam now I realize I grew up awash in a sea of smoke.)

So first the ban in bars happened, and I cursed Bloomberg up and down... and found bars that "allowed" smoking after hours. I even watched an incident where a non smoker got into a fight with the bartender over this policy, and I laughed at him audibly when he got his clock cleaned (he did throw the first punch, but still). And then the cops started handing out tickets after 11pm, so even those bars started disallowing it. So now I could only smoke in my house and on the street. Forget getting a cigarette break at work. When I would get home my now-fiance would give me a full half hour alone to smoke because I was nic-fitting so hard that I thought I was going to put holes in the walls.

Until the day someone at work offered me a nicotene lozenge. Suddenly I wasnt furious at work, and I was also climbing stairs without getting winded. I stayed on the lozenges for way too long... 2 years, before I made an effort to stop those. That was 6 months ago, and I havent been smoking or taking nicotene at all in that time, I guess Im cured.

Now, I'm not a huge fan of people pretending they know what is best for other people... I understand how that could make someone crazy enough to start name calling (and thereby invalidate their entire argument), but I know for me it was pressure I needed to quit. The ban by our... sigh... our mayor was imposed because he thinks he knows what is best for people who arent as wonderful as he is... but it had the side effect of actually decreasing smoking, or leading to it. Business in bars dipped, but then bounced before the recession, and the number of smokers in the city dipped permanentaly (it would seem).

Now with all that said, that if you are one of these hipster pukes who likes to tell anyone who will listen how "smoking is disgusting!" right before snorting a rail of coke (seen it happen) you had best hope I am not the only person around should you fall on the train tracks. I'll have a previous engagement that will preclude your rescue.

The argument that if someone doesnt like working there they can quit is a non-starter for me. I am not prepared to get into why, thats a whole new soap box to stand on, but I will say that decent and intelligent people sometimes have flawed logic.

So, I guess my thesis is I hated the smoking ban until it did good things for myself and the people around me.