Im sorry if anyone dissagrees but when I think of a bar/pub/tavern I see a bunch of guys half hidden behind smoke when you walk in. I know that smoking isnt very PC anymore but that is a bar. Since the smoming ban in my state it is nice to be able to breath while having a bottle or pint but it still doesnt feel right. According to my state a private club can still have smoking if the members agree to it, when one of them feels uncomfortable then all the smokers will either snuff their cigs or take it outside. I am currently in a bar which will remain nameless because of the activity which is a "bar" not just a drinkin establishment. It is refreshing to smell the smoke, feel the rowdiness, hear the actual jukebox and jave the barkeep have a refill ready before you get back to the bar. I guess im starting to ramble and mumble so end of rant, am I the only one?
Smokey bars
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I enjoy my bar visits much more now without the smoke. I don't miss it at all.
broadbill
Well-Known Member
Same here....enjoy going to a bar so much more now there is no smoking.
drainbamage
Keep HBT weird.
All politics aside...as a non-smoker, I like the smoking bans that have started to take hold around my area. Yeah, maybe it changes the whole bar atmosphere a little, but it's nice to spend some time in a bar without ending up smelling like an ashtray.
We have a smoking ban here in WI too. But even before that, the real beer geek bars banned smoking. That was a nice touch. But now that there's no smoking anywhere (except cigar bars) I don't miss it a bit either.
Misfit
Well-Known Member
As a former smoker I'm so glad pa banned smoking. I hated going out for a beer or two and smelling my clothes in the hamper from the other side of the room.
ArcaneXor
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When I pay $5-8 plus tip for a pint of beer, I expect to be able to smell and taste the beer. Indoor smoking bans were one of the few good ideas these tools in Tallahassee passed in a long time.
Edit: I guess smoking in bars is still legal here, but none of those I frequent permit smoking.
Edit: I guess smoking in bars is still legal here, but none of those I frequent permit smoking.
I'm a non smoker save for the weekly cigar so two and although I HATE the way cigarettes smell, smoking bans are complete BS. The business owner should have the supreme right to dictate whether or not a legal product can/should be enjoyed in their establishment. That's where I come out.
mc_eric
Well-Known Member
I smoke cigs, and even I'm glad that bars don't allow smoking around here. Most of the places I go to (the ones that serve good beer) didn't allow smoking even before it was banned a couple of years ago, which I think is the right decision for a place that serves expensive stuff.
On a philosophical/political level, I have to agree with duckmanco that the decision should be left to the business owner rather than banned outright by the gov't, but on a practical level it's nice to come home without all of your clothes smelling like you just escaped from a burning building. And I really don't mind stepping outside for a smoke, even if it is -10 degrees outside.
There are plenty of other reasons that I don't think smoking should be allowed in bars, but the main one is that I like to enjoy my beer without smelling like **** the next morning.
On a philosophical/political level, I have to agree with duckmanco that the decision should be left to the business owner rather than banned outright by the gov't, but on a practical level it's nice to come home without all of your clothes smelling like you just escaped from a burning building. And I really don't mind stepping outside for a smoke, even if it is -10 degrees outside.
There are plenty of other reasons that I don't think smoking should be allowed in bars, but the main one is that I like to enjoy my beer without smelling like **** the next morning.
davefleck
Well-Known Member
I sure don't miss sucking down air so thick with smoke you need a machete to navigate through
I didn't go to the bar much before the ban, so I guess it doesn't make that much of a difference to me, but I do enjoy going more now, and especially not coming home smelling like an ashtray.
My bigger beef is the loud music that makes having an engaging conversation impossible.
I'd love to visit a quiet "Pub" for once.
My bigger beef is the loud music that makes having an engaging conversation impossible.
I'd love to visit a quiet "Pub" for once.
They could always choose to work where there is no smoking. No one is forced to take a job.
I actually agree with the sentiment of the OP. I do not smoke cigarettes but the smell of cigarette smoke mixed with bar air takes me to good memories from college. I also love going to bars that allow me to smoke cigars. I do like a smoke free establishment for eating and I understand the thoughts on a smoke free beer bar. I respect that others may hate smoke but the decision should lie on the property owner/business owner not the government. If you own a bar and like smoking and your customer base likes smoking then you should be allowed to have a smoking establishment. If you like permitting smoking but your core patrons don't approve then you should think about not permitting it in order to continue a profitable business. It is no one's right to go to a PRIVATE establishment and have things their way and the government should not be able to ban a legal activity. The beauty of a free market is that I can vote with my feet. If I don't like the way a business is run I can go somewhere else. I have small kids and if it bothered me to walk past a smokey room, I would simply not walk past the smokey room and go to a non smoking establishment.
DeadFartWino
Active Member
I don't mind being in a bar filled with filled smoke....it's when I have hangover and I'm stinking of cigarettes that I hate smoking in bars.
JonK331
Well-Known Member
I'm a smoker and I hate smoking indoors period. Just gross. WHat I hate even more is f'ing karaoke.
Bernie Brewer
Grouchy Old Fart
If almost everyone likes the bars better without the smoke, then why has the bar business gone down the toilet since the ban went into effect?
Dr. Francois
Well-Known Member
Bernie Brewer said:
Well, we also had an economic crisis in that time, and close to 25% of men are unemployed in my state.
I support smoke-free public spaces, but from a public health perspective. I am also for lead-free water.
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ThickHead
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I definitely do NOT miss the smoke when I go down to the pub for a few pints and a meal. Having said that, I also enjoy a cigar with nice scotch every now and then down at the cigar bar. I am not a huge fan of straight up bans on things like this but from what I have experienced as a patron, pubs are much more welcoming places to hang out.
Took my young one to the local bar and had a nice time. Philly sandwhich with perch fillets on the side, and fried Oreos for dessert.
And no smoke.
And no smoke.
Hang Glider
Beer Drinker
If 22% of the population smokes, then 78% don't.
Not all smokers drink and frequent bars; also, not all non-smokers drink and frequent bars.
however, it is likely that after the ban, a business is likely to remain stable, or see an increase, due to the larger number of non-smokers.
Although studies will dispute this, many of the studies were funded by tobacco.
Here is a good article to read that looks to be relatively unbiased.
Not all smokers drink and frequent bars; also, not all non-smokers drink and frequent bars.
however, it is likely that after the ban, a business is likely to remain stable, or see an increase, due to the larger number of non-smokers.
Although studies will dispute this, many of the studies were funded by tobacco.
Here is a good article to read that looks to be relatively unbiased.
^ that.
Before the ban, you really couldn't find a single bar around here that didn't allow smoking. Even all but a few restaurants had "smoking sections" separated by... well, nothing.
How does that make sense, when only about 1 in 5 people even smoke these days? By rights, only 1 in 5 should have allowed it!
Because if a bar or even restaurant didn't allow smokers, they have practically guaranteed that they'll lose them as customers... the mere thought of going a couple hours without a smoke is enough to make an addict uncomfortable.
So it's kind if tacit collusion in a way. If EVERYBODY allows smoking, then everybody has access to all the potential customers. That's one big reason that "a private business making their own decision" just doesn't matter to me in this case. In general, I think they should be able to make their own decisions, but this is an exception... and just about everyone agrees there are valid exceptions. For example, I doubt many people here would think that a private business should be allowed to refuse service to blacks.
The other reason I support the ban is that it's pretty much an issue of workplace safety. People working in a bar surely inhaled far more smoke over the course of a day than any of the actual smokers. And yet I don't recall any bars or restaurants allowing their employees to wear masks. This is no longer an issue about private business's rights. It's not as simple as a customer simply deciding not to go to a certain business - turning down a potential job is just often not an option. Just because an employer is the one handing out the money to employees that can *technically* choose not to work for them if they don't like the conditions, doesn't mean they don't have to provide decent conditions and as safe a working environment as is reasonably possible. This is a widely-accepted principle in any developed country. I know SOME *extreme* conservatives think that business owners shouldn't be forced to provide safe working conditions, and have the freedom to operate like sweatshops if they so choose, but I like to think that most of us arent like that.
Before the ban, you really couldn't find a single bar around here that didn't allow smoking. Even all but a few restaurants had "smoking sections" separated by... well, nothing.
How does that make sense, when only about 1 in 5 people even smoke these days? By rights, only 1 in 5 should have allowed it!
Because if a bar or even restaurant didn't allow smokers, they have practically guaranteed that they'll lose them as customers... the mere thought of going a couple hours without a smoke is enough to make an addict uncomfortable.
So it's kind if tacit collusion in a way. If EVERYBODY allows smoking, then everybody has access to all the potential customers. That's one big reason that "a private business making their own decision" just doesn't matter to me in this case. In general, I think they should be able to make their own decisions, but this is an exception... and just about everyone agrees there are valid exceptions. For example, I doubt many people here would think that a private business should be allowed to refuse service to blacks.
The other reason I support the ban is that it's pretty much an issue of workplace safety. People working in a bar surely inhaled far more smoke over the course of a day than any of the actual smokers. And yet I don't recall any bars or restaurants allowing their employees to wear masks. This is no longer an issue about private business's rights. It's not as simple as a customer simply deciding not to go to a certain business - turning down a potential job is just often not an option. Just because an employer is the one handing out the money to employees that can *technically* choose not to work for them if they don't like the conditions, doesn't mean they don't have to provide decent conditions and as safe a working environment as is reasonably possible. This is a widely-accepted principle in any developed country. I know SOME *extreme* conservatives think that business owners shouldn't be forced to provide safe working conditions, and have the freedom to operate like sweatshops if they so choose, but I like to think that most of us arent like that.
The biggest reason,as a big shot at Ford told me,is that there fire/hazard insurance went down after the ban. So I can only assume that it was an economic choice as well.
But on the flip side,when the ban was set to go into effect,the news was buzzing with pub owners worrying about the customers they knew wouldn't be back. Even the Buffalo Wild wings around here looked like a ghost town for quite a while. We thought they'd close. Some did.
So smokers vs non can be a bit regional. I stopped going to bars,but not just for that reason. While I do enjoy a smoke with my beer/drink,I hate tickets even more. All the madd,sadd,etc groups gettin pissy about bars at the time on top of smoking bans. The cities love it,since they make more money off DUI's & the courts. Either way,I loose...
But on the flip side,when the ban was set to go into effect,the news was buzzing with pub owners worrying about the customers they knew wouldn't be back. Even the Buffalo Wild wings around here looked like a ghost town for quite a while. We thought they'd close. Some did.
So smokers vs non can be a bit regional. I stopped going to bars,but not just for that reason. While I do enjoy a smoke with my beer/drink,I hate tickets even more. All the madd,sadd,etc groups gettin pissy about bars at the time on top of smoking bans. The cities love it,since they make more money off DUI's & the courts. Either way,I loose...
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Don't miss the smoke at all. All those things you mentioned, Jukebox, bartender having a refill ready, guys being rowdy, ect, can all be done without cigarettes. Just so you're aware. 
I wasnt meaning to say that the ban is all bad. Yes I see and support the health side of it but I guess im just old fashioned and think that you should worry about and take care of your own health and not leave it up to the government.
I sort of agree with you, on principle. The problem though is that very few places were ever completely non-smoking because it was the business owners' choice, they knew 100% that they would lose smokers as customers because they could easily frequent places that allowed smoking, which was basically everywhere. It was a vicious cycle.
As opposed to complete smoking bans, I feel that local governments should impose strict regulations on how a business can allow smoking, so that it is not an obvious choice to just do it. As it was, here at least, there was no reason to have a non-smoking place at all until a few years before the total ban when they instituted ventilation rules. At that point, I remember starting to see restaurants go completely non-smoking, but bars just put in the ventilation fans.
If it was tough to allow smoking, the "market forces" would be on the business, not the consumer, as to whether they are willing to allow it. As it was, the market force laid on the consumer. Most people, myself included, were willing to deal with an hour or so of second hand smoke to go get a nice dinner, because my only options were smoking, fast food, and home. If we force the choice on the business owner in that allowing smoking costs them more money in ventilation, regulation, inspections, etc, then more businesses would have opted not to allow it, giving consumers more choice.
broadbill
Well-Known Member
As was mentioned before, its not about the health of the the customer who is there for 1-4 hours a week (at max), its about the employee who is there 4-12 hours 5-6 days a week.
We as a society decided in the beginning of the 20th century that we value a healthy and productive workforce. To promote this we instituted laws to protect workers from unsafe working conditions, sometimes at the expense of the customer (in terms of their comfort, convenience, or cost of goods).
A customer loses the comfort and convenience of having a cigarette with their drink, but we gain an employee that is able to work in a safe environment on a daily basis; a safe environment they can work in for many years without having to stop working because of work-related illnesses. Employee holds their job, pays their taxes, society improves, dreams are realized through accumulation of wealth, etc., etc. blah, blah, blah....
Long story short: if you want to kill yourself by smoking, you can't take the bartender down with you. Take it outside.
It can also be looked at as discrimination against a minority group as a whole. Depends on how many smokers/non smokers in a given area. I understand the situation,but it's like trampling my rights to get what you want. I can go a while without smoking,sure. But banning smoking virtually everywhere is just wrong.
They don't care about your health,they're saving money on electricity for ventilation,& money on fire/hazard insurance. The insurance companies don't pay out as much for that sort of thing. They're happy. The business owner winds up saving on operating costs after the initial loss of business. They win,I loose. So I just take it home,to hell with the lot of them.
There's a group that's even trying to ban smoking at home when you have children. I remember them even trying to ban smoking in cars. Such narrow mindedness amazes me. There are far more important things to worry about in this country. Do your own thing,but don't stop me from doing mine. Because then,you're taking away MY freedoms. Never an easy question,is it?
They don't care about your health,they're saving money on electricity for ventilation,& money on fire/hazard insurance. The insurance companies don't pay out as much for that sort of thing. They're happy. The business owner winds up saving on operating costs after the initial loss of business. They win,I loose. So I just take it home,to hell with the lot of them.
There's a group that's even trying to ban smoking at home when you have children. I remember them even trying to ban smoking in cars. Such narrow mindedness amazes me. There are far more important things to worry about in this country. Do your own thing,but don't stop me from doing mine. Because then,you're taking away MY freedoms. Never an easy question,is it?
I hate to say it, but it is an easy question because of the reams of information relating to the detriments of second-hand smoke to health. Anything taking away individual rights (smoking in your car, home, etc.) I would be completely against. But with all of the info on what second-hand smoke can do to people, I feel no sympathy for smokers losing their "right" to force it on us. I smoked for almost 14 years by the way. Quitting is entirely possible if you really want to do it.
It comes down to majority rules. Doesn't mean I have to like it. Or quit because society & the government want me to for their convenience/health. It's always gunna be a double edged sword. I just think there's a better way to do this. Whatever that might be?...
tnaratil
Member
I think it should be up to the business. If the bartender doesn't like it move to a new job.
But on a personal level, around here the best our bars have to offer are Coors, Bud or the high end Laabots for $5 w/tip. The combo of a Coors product and a smoke screen bar = hangover death. The wifey and I designed a beer drinking room around our kegerator and we rarely leave the house on the weekend haha. Your own beer, your own music and a song also is $1 a play.
But on a personal level, around here the best our bars have to offer are Coors, Bud or the high end Laabots for $5 w/tip. The combo of a Coors product and a smoke screen bar = hangover death. The wifey and I designed a beer drinking room around our kegerator and we rarely leave the house on the weekend haha. Your own beer, your own music and a song also is $1 a play.
Hang Glider
Beer Drinker
and in this day and age, jobs are a dime a dozen...
It is about restricting freedoms and it isn't...because this isn't whether the government is restricting your ability to choose a KitKat or Twizzlers. It's general public health that's on the line.
And...if you smoke in your car and you have babies...well you're not very considerate of others, then, are you? Smoking without kids, who cares, but who looks out for the children if you blatantly refuse to?
rycov
Well-Known Member
i just recently gave up smoking. i'm glad (for personal reasons) that smoking is now banned in most bars (although its still up to the owner here in SC). it makes it that much easier for me not to have a cigarette (two months now!!
), but i do think that it should be left up to the owner.
), but i do think that it should be left up to the owner.
GodsStepBrother
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I am a smoker and I hate smoking indoors. It’s dirty and nasty no doubt, and I am all for not allowing smokers inside. It’s like having the toilet in the middle of the bar, and not off to the side.
As another poster mentioned; I love going outside to smoke. The cold weather makes me enjoy it more for some reason and I generally like to be outside. Granted the weather in my city allows this almost year round.
Things get out of hand very quickly though. It is scary to think the place I work at now does not allow smoking anywhere on their property. Even if you are on the other side of the parking lot you cannot smoke. I take it there main reason for this is 3rd hand smoke coming in the building, but even then everybody who smokes just goes to the side takes one step out of the parking lot and lights up, even the managers do. Pair this up with the ads they are trying to make companies put on their packages, it is going to be illegal in no time at this rate. One day my grandchild will ask me how it was to smoke when I was younger.
As another poster mentioned; I love going outside to smoke. The cold weather makes me enjoy it more for some reason and I generally like to be outside. Granted the weather in my city allows this almost year round.
Things get out of hand very quickly though. It is scary to think the place I work at now does not allow smoking anywhere on their property. Even if you are on the other side of the parking lot you cannot smoke. I take it there main reason for this is 3rd hand smoke coming in the building, but even then everybody who smokes just goes to the side takes one step out of the parking lot and lights up, even the managers do. Pair this up with the ads they are trying to make companies put on their packages, it is going to be illegal in no time at this rate. One day my grandchild will ask me how it was to smoke when I was younger.
owners choice, plan and simple . . . if I dont like it I can go someplace else and if they cant get employees or customers they need to figure out a new plan
davefleck
Well-Known Member
unionrdr said:
That is one of the most absurd things I've read here. Smokers are under no conditions classified as a minority group and thus due some sort of protection.
broadbill
Well-Known Member
Let consider an similar situation: If a factory worker's job is in a warehouse where there are asbestos fibers floating through the air (or toxic chemicals, etc), that worker should have to find a job in a safer environment instead of expecting to have access to the proper safety equipment or expect the factory owners to make the place safe for their employees?
