Side-by-Side Kegerator/Fermentation Chamber

[rtrevino]

I dont want mean to jump in and take over this thread but I did this build the exact way that Forbein11 did and then tried to improve it a little so that I could do what you are asking; lower both sides to say 35. The way it is build here is very good and works great but you can't lower both sides that much. Check out what I have done; I'm still in trial mode but so far it's not too bad. My buildhttps://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/sibe-side-kegerator-fermenting-chamber-conversion-243671/

 

[Forbein11]

Nice build rtrevino. Some nice modifications in there. Seeing your taps should get me off my ass. I have all the parts to do the mod but I also have a four month old. Love him but he's cramping my style a bit. I'll have to remedy that.

twd000, I do not know enough to know if you need the defrost heater or not. I left it all connected so that the unit would work as wired originally. If it needed to do something, it could. I will say that having lights can be a help if you keep it in a dim room.

I cannot get both sides of mine to the same temperature. I can get the right side into the mid 40's when I have the left side at 38. Mine is in a basement that never gets over 77 though. To get them close to the same you'd have to do what rtrevino did or maybe put in a larger opening between sides that you could easily remove and replace if you had a need to go to the same temp.

The damper is just a small plastic door that opens and closes. However, my fridge has a fan that blows in the freezer up to that damper door for circulation. Adding a computer fan would increase this circulation and your ability to go lower in the right side.

I did not use either thermistor. I just use the Love probes for temp control.

 

[twd000]

good stuff. I think I'll leave the lights connected. And the defrost cycle should not kick on as long as you leave that thermistor in place.

I'm toying with the idea of adding a computer fan that kicks on the same time as the damper door, so you force circulation. It would help cold-crash for lagering, and also getting my wort down to target fermentation temp quickly. Lately I have been doing a partial-chill where I don't fight the ground water below 100 or so, just let it sit at room temp until the next day before pitching yeast.

 

[jiggs_casey]

I want to do this exact build to a Whirlpool ED19Ak Side by Side. Here's my problem. NO schematic, no manual and after calling Whirlpool they have no access to that either. I still want to try this build. as a Keezer and Fermentation side by side. I just dont know where to start. Could I just pull out the thermos and basically over ride those with the Love Control?

I just picked up the same fridge today for a kegerator project. Interestingly enough, I went out looking for a manual (googled 'whirpool ed19ak') and it brought me to this thread... hehehe

 

[drkwoods]

I just picked up the same fridge today for a kegerator project. Interestingly enough, I went out looking for a manual (googled 'whirpool ed19ak') and it brought me to this thread... hehehe

Well I have finished my side by side keezer/fermentor and I know the wiring pretty well now. If you need any help let me know. Otherwise I will post pics and the story of my whole build soon

 

[mistercameron]

I'm looking at a Kenmore on CL. In my search for the wiring diagrams online I found out that many of these fridges are going to be fairly similar - Gibson, Electrolux, Kenmore, Frigidaire, and some others. It's worth doing a little bit of research if this is something that interests you. It may not be the exact same model, but it might be "close enough."

I also think this looks a little scary, but when you remember that you're basically bypassing the temperature control knobs, it's a little less daunting. I will have to start with just one temp controller, but ultimately plan on doing two temp controllers - one to turn on the cold to the freezer, and another to turn on the fridge (cool) or a small ceramic heater bulb if ambient is too low to keep ale temps.

**Question** I'm looking at the Kenmore wiring diagram and it appears the freezer control ("cold control") has two wires to the refrigerator control. One looks like hot, but what might the other be for (it's grn/yel in the diagram)?

 

[twd000]

I'm looking at the wiring diagram for my GE side-by-side and it says there are three sensors - FF (fresh food), FZ (freezer) and Evaporator (fan). So do I just replace the FF and FZ with the two Love probes, and leave the Evap Fan sensor in place?

 

[bbentley40]

I'm looking at the wiring diagram for my GE side-by-side and it says there are three sensors - FF (fresh food), FZ (freezer) and Evaporator (fan). So do I just replace the FF and FZ with the two Love probes, and leave the Evap Fan sensor in place?

See if this helps you out.. I have a GE Profile Arctica side-by-side that looks almost identical to the OP's except I have digital controls instead of knobs. I been trying to figure out how I am going to rewire mine soon as I finish my keezer project. Just came upon this and figured it might help you too.

GE Technical Service Manual

 

[twd000]

Thanks for posting that. Your fridge looks much more complicated than mine. I don't have the fresh food tower, or any fan on the fresh food side. The way my FF gets cold air is totally passive - the damper is hinged and just lifts up when there is back-pressure. There is no actively controlled damper between the two sides.

I also don't have an adaptive defrost system on mine. Not sure if it makes the wiring any simpler.

 

[mistercameron]

Forbein11,

As I was doing my research, I found that Frigidaire and Kenmore (among others) are more or less the same refrigerators. My 10y/o Kenmore looks a little bit different than yours in the wiring and control board - all the wires enter the board through one of those white plugs. Otherwise, they're pretty close, as far as I can tell.

What I can't see in your photos is what the temp control knobs look like w/ the wires. Mine has only three wires - Hot, Ground, and a third going back to the control board ("Freezer cold control" and "fresh food control"). Does yours have more, or am I looking at your diagram wrong? Your fridge control looks like it has a damper wire on it. Am I correct to guess that the third (colored) wires can be considered neutral for the sake of hooking up the controller?

 

[rtrevino]

Forbein11,

As I was doing my research, I found that Frigidaire and Kenmore (among others) are more or less the same refrigerators. My 10y/o Kenmore looks a little bit different than yours in the wiring and control board - all the wires enter the board through one of those white plugs. Otherwise, they're pretty close, as far as I can tell.

What I can't see in your photos is what the temp control knobs look like w/ the wires. Mine has only three wires - Hot, Ground, and a third going back to the control board ("Freezer cold control" and "fresh food control"). Does yours have more, or am I looking at your diagram wrong? Your fridge control looks like it has a damper wire on it. Am I correct to guess that the third (colored) wires can be considered neutral for the sake of hooking up the controller?

Mistercameron
I replied to your pm about my build but I think you may be getting confused between the wiring Forbien11 has done and the way I wired the system. Forbien11 has kept the damper in place where I have completely emilinated it.

 

[mistercameron]

Mistercameron
I replied to your pm about my build but I think you may be getting confused between the wiring Forbien11 has done and the way I wired the system. Forbien11 has kept the damper in place where I have completely emilinated it.

Yeah... I think you are right. Sorry about that.

 

[rtrevino]

Yeah... I think you are right. Sorry about that.

No problem, I just don't want you or anyone to get too confused with this build. In my opinion both ways are fairly straight forward and both have positive and negative things.

 

[mistercameron]

No problem, I just don't want you or anyone to get too confused with this build. In my opinion both ways are fairly straight forward and both have positive and negative things.

Sure - and I'm doing mine a little bit differently as well. Once the temp controllers come in the mail I'll start a thread. I'm adding a heating element of some kind to the fridge side to maintain good ale temps during the cold months. So... two temperature controllers.

I do appreciate that though we have different brands and model years, the important parts are remarkably similar. The one major difference I see is the pink wire from the fridge thermo to the damper. Mine doesn't have that. Instead, that connection comes out of the defrost board. Otherwise, I think it's all the same. Depending on how well my system does with just the damper in place, I may have to wire a little AC fan in as you (rtrevino) did.

These two side-by-side threads have been great, and I appreciate the helpful instructions. Really a +1 confidence boost on this fridge hacking.

 

[mistercameron]

Have you noticed any issues with the temperature controller being partially inside the fridge? My concern there is with humidity affecting the electronics.

 

[rtrevino]

Actually I haven't noticed any moisture at all but I am curious to know what the % is.... I'm going to put a gauge from a humidor in and check it out.

 

[Forbein11]

I haven't noticed any moisture either. So far I have had zero problems with the temp controller or any other part of the system.

 

[mistercameron]

I haven't noticed any moisture either. So far I have had zero problems with the temp controller or any other part of the system.

Have either of you noticed condensation forming on either side? I have a mini fridge I've been using and it gets wicked condensation in there. I *think* the fridge should be different because there's a drain under the condenser coils, but I wouldn't be surprised if it surfaces got a little damp.

 

[sdRick]

I installed the same controller in the same frigidaire frig and haven't noticed any problems with condensation. It actually seems pretty dry inside. Except for the time I had my airlock blow and there was double ipa all over the place!

 

[cwi]

I have looked at the original and two hybrids/mutants of the original design. (Sorry if I may be merging a couple of threads in this post.)

In advance- I am not trying to crap on any of the builds. There is just some confusion in another thread about whether the controller has to be spliced into the original thermo wiring, or if a plug-in receptacle style controller can be used.

Why does the original thermostat have to be tampered with at all?

As I see it, the thermo retrofit is equivalent to maxing out the OEM thermo (or various other tricks) to force an "always on" state, and then powering the original plug using the controller. If you still wanted the controller through-mounted for the bling factor, you could still do it, although bringing the original plug wires in from the outside may (or may not) be easier than accessing the OEM thermo wires. However, wires equivalent to the plug wires are also available at the OEM thermo, and could be wired to a plug.

This would simplify things for many, especially those who have different fridges; can't find/read their schematic; or don't feel comfortable messing with the guts of the fridge. It would be the mythical Unified Theory. It would also allow easier re-purposing of the controller, either temporarily or permanently. You don't even have to lose the bling factor if it is through-mounted.

The fridge with the auto-damper control is a little trickier, but can still be done with a plug in style controller. The wires to power the damper and fan just need to be wired to a plug, and plugged in to the controller. These auto-controlled damper fridges are functionally equivalent to the builds using a computer fan to move freezer air to the fridge side as a means of controlling the temp on the fridge side. The downside, which has been discovered, is the OEM fan/damper does not have enough flow for some situations. It was designed to maintain ~37F on the fridge side, but to do so with ~0F air on the freezer side.

Regarding the defrost control. The defrost control randomly disables cooling; adds heat, and is not a desirable feature for the control of serving/ferm temps. The defrost circuit can be eliminated, but a small fan to continuously blow on the coils would be needed. This is especially true if it is used for cold crashing, or maintaining lager/serving temps on both sides. A side benefit is the small fan would help eliminate temp variations as well as a number of other issues. In humid climates, there may still be icing issues. If you have icing issues and really dislike the "dumb" defrost cycle, there are controllers with "smart" defrost that only turn on when ice is present on the coils, and also have a "postpone defrost temporarily" function.

 

[cwi]

Have either of you noticed condensation forming on either side? I have a mini fridge I've been using and it gets wicked condensation in there. I *think* the fridge should be different because there's a drain under the condenser coils, but I wouldn't be surprised if it surfaces got a little damp.

The main cause of excessive condensation is air intrusion- commonly a leaky door seal. Even running a thin probe wire between the door seal and fridge frame can be enough to cause condensation issues.

 

[mistercameron]

Any recommendations on where to stick the heat source? I'm leaning towards picking up a ceramic heat emitter and adding a small AC fan to move some of the air around. I've seen some others put light bulbs inside of paint cans, but that seems like it's too bulky, nor do I like the idea of a hot light bulb inside a metal can.

My gut tells me to place the heat source on the bottom with the fan blowing somewhat orthogonally across it so we're not just heating the bottom of the carboy above it.

Second question - how many watts is enough? I'm leaning towards 100, but would a 60W emitter be enough to keep the fermenter at 68 when it's in the 30's outside?

 

[twd000]

I have looked at the original and two hybrids/mutants of the original design. (Sorry if I may be merging a couple of threads in this post.)

In advance- I am not trying to crap on any of the builds. There is just some confusion in another thread about whether the controller has to be spliced into the original thermo wiring, or if a plug-in receptacle style controller can be used.

Why does the original thermostat have to be tampered with at all?

As I see it, the thermo retrofit is equivalent to maxing out the OEM thermo (or various other tricks) to force an "always on" state, and then powering the original plug using the controller. If you still wanted the controller through-mounted for the bling factor, you could still do it, although bringing the original plug wires in from the outside may (or may not) be easier than accessing the OEM thermo wires. However, wires equivalent to the plug wires are also available at the OEM thermo, and could be wired to a plug.

This would simplify things for many, especially those who have different fridges; can't find/read their schematic; or don't feel comfortable messing with the guts of the fridge. It would be the mythical Unified Theory. It would also allow easier re-purposing of the controller, either temporarily or permanently. You don't even have to lose the bling factor if it is through-mounted.

The fridge with the auto-damper control is a little trickier, but can still be done with a plug in style controller. The wires to power the damper and fan just need to be wired to a plug, and plugged in to the controller. These auto-controlled damper fridges are functionally equivalent to the builds using a computer fan to move freezer air to the fridge side as a means of controlling the temp on the fridge side. The downside, which has been discovered, is the OEM fan/damper does not have enough flow for some situations. It was designed to maintain ~37F on the fridge side, but to do so with ~0F air on the freezer side.

Regarding the defrost control. The defrost control randomly disables cooling; adds heat, and is not a desirable feature for the control of serving/ferm temps. The defrost circuit can be eliminated, but a small fan to continuously blow on the coils would be needed. This is especially true if it is used for cold crashing, or maintaining lager/serving temps on both sides. A side benefit is the small fan would help eliminate temp variations as well as a number of other issues. In humid climates, there may still be icing issues. If you have icing issues and really dislike the "dumb" defrost cycle, there are controllers with "smart" defrost that only turn on when ice is present on the coils, and also have a "postpone defrost temporarily" function.

I have also been following a couple of these threads with interest. It seems to me that there are two fundamental fridge designs - analog controls and digital controls. I have a digital fridge and I couldn't see any way of splicing in Love controllers without ruining the unit. I don't have the electric wiring knowledge to understand the signal routing, even with a schematic, since the logic functions are programmed into the circuit card. A bi-metal snap-switch and mechanical defrost timer would have been a different story.

So I have opted for the solution you proposed; plugging in the whole unit to a single-stage STC controller to control the fridge side, then wiring a 2-stage Love controller to control a damper fan and heating bulb on the fridge side. I will also tap off a power line to run the interior lights when the doors are opened.

As far as the defrost control, I am taking the word of others who have posted about it being an issue. I plan to use my freezer side for lagering and serving, which are darn near freezing temperatures, so I don't want to disable the defrost function. Another reason for me not to muck with the digital controls. You may very well be able to get away with it for a well-sealed unit, but I'd rather not take any chances.

my 2cents

 

[cwi]

It seems to me that there are two fundamental fridge designs - analog controls and digital controls. I have a digital fridge and I couldn't see any way of splicing in Love controllers without ruining the unit.

It is a lot of mucking around, especially if you find out later that you have to cut a large hole between the sides to install a larger fan because the OEM fan and damper don't move enough air.

So I have opted for the solution you proposed; plugging in the whole unit to a single-stage STC controller to control the fridge side, then wiring a 2-stage Love controller to control a damper fan and heating bulb on the fridge side.

There is an STC-1000 for ~$20 that is dual stage and functionally very similar to the Love.

As far as the defrost control, I am taking the word of others who have posted about it being an issue. I plan to use my freezer side for lagering and serving, which are darn near freezing temperatures, so I don't want to disable the defrost function. Another reason for me not to muck with the digital controls. You may very well be able to get away with it for a well-sealed unit, but I'd rather not take any chances.

Messing with the defrost can be problematic, and varies with each model. If you aren't confident with schematics and electronics, it is best left alone as you have chosen to do. If you are lucky, your fridge has smart defrost, and will only activate if it really needs it- not just based on some stupid timer.

For running wires from outside to inside, there should be several avenues ranging from the ice maker hookups to the bottom drain for the evaporator coil, and possible points in between.

 

[mistercameron]

@twd000

I think you hit the nail on the head with the notions about digital controls. I don't know if you're able to swap out the fridge for an analog model, but it could be worth it. My only other idea is to set the digital thermostat(s) to cold and try to intercept the wiring to the compressor with your controller. I just got my STC-1000 about a week and a half ago for just under $25 a pop with shipping. On the analog thermostats it's not so bad because they are pretty much just a physical switch and the STC controllers do just that switch on/off - the unit doesn't supply any power to the hot/cold controls.

 

[cwi]

My only other idea is to set the digital thermostat(s) to cold

The way he is planning to do it, with an add on fan and damper, he would need to set the fridge side to the warmest setting, or likely disable it. The fridge side thermo in these types has no direct control over the compressor, just indirectly by drawing air from the freezer which may cause the freezer thermo to activate the compressor.

and try to intercept the wiring to the compressor with your controller.

That would be called the plug, which he is already planning to do. Intercepting and using the switched neutral at the compressor will retain power to the lights and such in the fridge; but may not be any easier than using the plug, and then powering the needed internals, like lights, directly.

On the analog thermostats it's not so bad because they are pretty much just a physical switch and the STC controllers do just that switch on/off - the unit doesn't supply any power to the hot/cold controls.

From a black box perspective, the OEM digital controls are no different from analog ones. For either one, there is no functional need to retrofit the compressor controller, only a cosmetic one. Powering the plug gives the same result.

If using the OEM damper/fan for the fridge side, you would need to find the power leads for that, and take control of them. As stated before, the OEM fan may not move enough air to keep the fridge side at ferm temps.

 

[twd000]

@twd000

I think you hit the nail on the head with the notions about digital controls. I don't know if you're able to swap out the fridge for an analog model, but it could be worth it. My only other idea is to set the digital thermostat(s) to cold and try to intercept the wiring to the compressor with your controller. I just got my STC-1000 about a week and a half ago for just under $25 a pop with shipping. On the analog thermostats it's not so bad because they are pretty much just a physical switch and the STC controllers do just that switch on/off - the unit doesn't supply any power to the hot/cold controls.

is there an equivalent to the STC-1000 that displays in Fahrenheit? The Love TSS2-2100 is $69 plus probes. I want to control fermentation within 1-deg F accuracy. What is the resolution of the STC-1000? Can it display/control to 0.1 C, or 1 C?

 

[cwi]

is there an equivalent to the STC-1000 that displays in Fahrenheit? The Love TSS2-2100 is $69 plus probes. I want to control fermentation within 1-deg F accuracy. What is the resolution of the STC-1000? Can it display/control to 0.1 C, or 1 C?

STC-1000 is it, and is only in C.
Differential min is .3C (or .5C?), so ~1F. Any lower diff, and you would fry your compressor with all the cycling. The probe is very fast reacting.
Display is .1C.
Compressor anti-short cycling delay to ~10 minutes
Be very specific in the model you order-110VAC for the US. SkiesMall, or something like that, is the current low price leader of the US 110VAC model.
Check the ebay aquarium controller thread for more info.

 

[mistercameron]

I have the fermentation side going now with the inaugural brew. At the moment the fridge is sucking cool air over, though I'm not sure it can keep up with this active fermentation. How has yours been working?

 

[twd000]

Has anyone found a way to fit more than 2 kegs in the freezer side? I'm taking measurements and it looks like I can fit 2 with plenty of extra space but not a third. I haven't cut any of the parts out of the door (yet).