Seriously reconsidering going all grain

[acefaser]

Ok, so I am new to brewing and did an 5 gal extract brew for my first brew and decided to go all grain for my second batch. Holy moly this was a lot of work. I hope the finished product turns out. I think if I continue with all grain I will be doing 10 gal batches (little more work, lots more beer)

Please talk me into continuing this all grain thing. I hate for this extra money I have put into the equipment to go to waist.

 

[strat_thru_marshall]

Man, on my first all grain batch it took me 8 hours and i think I used every pot, pan, strainer, and spoon in my kitchen. It was a nightmare.

Many many batches later, I can knock it out in 4.5 hours from measuring grain to cleanup, and it's almost auto-pilot at this point (almost...).

It takes time and practice to get your process down. Don't be discouraged, it will only get easier from here. Spend some time reading up on all grain process and the science behind each step. Plan before each brew day, and take detailed notes during each brew session. You'll get it down, it just takes a little repetition.

 

[iparks81]

With all grain you have many more options on types of grain and styles of beer you can brew. Some also say the beer is better when brewed from grain rather than Extract.
It's all up to how much your time is worth to you.

 

[shivalotus]

I recently made the switch after doing extract for years. I'd never go back. The final product is worth the extra time. My first time took a while and it is still taking hours to do. I feel like I'm learning how to brew all over again, but this time without training wheels. Keep after it. Once you've done it over and over again it will feel simple. I'm getting more comfortable already and I just did my third AG tonight.

 

[Mysticmead]

stick with it.. you've brewed 2 whole batches of beer. yes AG takes more effort but the results of brewing beer from grain to glass is more than worth it. You'll be able to pick the grains to give you the flavor profile you want. Extract leaves you at the mercy of the company that made the extract. I just brewed my 5th AG beer. It gets easier each time you brew.

 

[Mermaid]

It's worth it. Especially if you have the ability to do your boil outdoors, keeps the madness in your kitchen to a minimum. I do small batches (4 gallons), AG, using the "Brew in a Bag" method. I'm still a noob and make mistakes, but with each batch I'm learning more and more. I have found it's also cheaper to go AG, and you have the ability to fine tune your recipe choosing different types of 2-row, etc.

 

[azscoob]

I have never brewed an extract batch, I know how daunting the whole process can be, but once you do it a few times it comes easier, you learn what steps you can streamline and what you can clean or prep while waiting during downtime, like while mashing or waiting for the next hop addition. when I start chilling the wort everything else is cleaned and put away, once it is drained into the carboy all thats left is cleaning the pump, and cleaning the keggle.

Don't give up yet, you just need to get into your brew groove and dial your process in.

 

[jaginger]

It's worth it. Especially if you have the ability to do your boil outdoors, keeps the madness in your kitchen to a minimum. I do small batches (4 gallons), AG, using the "Brew in a Bag" method. I'm still a noob and make mistakes, but with each batch I'm learning more and more. I have found it's also cheaper to go AG, and you have the ability to fine tune your recipe choosing different types of 2-row, etc.

ditto this. it sounds like you already bought equipment, but BIAB is really easy and REALLY cheap. stick with it. good times lie ahead.

FYI, I think doing extract can make fine beer, so that's not the point of my comment. To me it just feels a little more fun to start with grain.

 

[Northcalais40]

I'll give you the same advice my pal gave me before our first baby was born:

Don't worry it only takes a few minutes, and you won't feel a thing.

 

[Weizenwerks]

Brew extract until you master these three areas:

Boil
Fermentation
Yeast

There is so much happening during the boil, many take it for granted.

If you can't get those basic fundamentals down, you will only add variables with all grain.

 

[dunnright00]

Brew extract until you master these three areas:

Boil
Fermentation
Yeast

There is so much happening during the boil, many take it for granted.

If you can't get those basic fundamentals down, you will only add variables with all grain.

This is good advice.

So often I see here people in a big hurry to go AG. Like it's a status symbol or, you're not a real brewer if you're not an All Grain brewer. Not just here but at the LHBS also.

True, I believe the best way to advance as a brewer is to venture into AG, but get the basics down first. Understand everything that's going on and move into each step. Granted, there are several here that went straight into it, but I bet there are a lot also who just got frustrated and ended up leaving the hobby as a whole.

Bottom line is; Extract, Mini-Mash or All-Grain it still makes beer. So don't feel like you need to go big. If it seems like too much, scale back a bit.

 

[dshaggy]

I started AG brewing about 3 months ago, I wouldn't think about not doing it. It takes about 4-5 hours for me for a 6 gallon batch. I also heat all my mash/sparge water inside and boil outside on propane. There's no way I would do all grain inside.

 

[kanzimonson]

After you've done it several times, you find ways to be more efficient. Here are some things I do that have really helped me time-wise:

-I start the brew day by getting only the equipment I need to start heating strike water. It takes about 15min for the strike water to heat up, so while this is going I bring out all the equipment I need for mashing (grain, spoon, salts, etc)
-While I'm mashing I bring out my boiling equipment and weigh out my hop additions
-While I'm boiling I clean my mash equipment, sanitize my fermentor, get the chiller and pump ready
-While chilling I start to put things away and clean the last little items.
-Channel your chill water into a bucket so you can use it to clean in place, rather than taking all the time to move equipment to the kitchen for cleaning (SWMBO likes this too)

Finally, we come to the advice that nobody wants to hear and frankly I don't always follow it myself:

1) Brew alone, or with another brewer WHO IS WILLING TO WORK.
2) Don't drink.

Okay, so that last one is ridiculous but it makes a huge difference. In truth, my drinking limit is "at the first sign of boiling wort." But both of these tips have to do with your concentration and planning. You lose both of these when you drink, and when you have to entertain somebody else.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

Your first AG is always the hardest because you don't know what you're doing or what it's supposed to look like. Your next batch or two will be much easier and faster.

 

[wlffmnnn]

I brewed 2 batches this past weekend, and I will say this. Though there were flaws in how I did the first batch on saturday I was excited for the process getting easier. My batch yesterday was my 4th attempt at a Fat Tire Clone. I had as of yet to get a clear wort in my run off, and for things to go smoothly. Well yesterday it did and I got clear wort. I was so elated there are no words to describe. I did a little dance and my wife said I was acting like a kid. She had no idea what it meant. I say be patient. Things get better. I probably moved fast also, but I want to always improve.

 

[acefaser]

Thanks for the advice guys. I will try to get my brewing efficiency improved and this will cut down on the time it takes to brew. Is a 10 gallon batch that much more work or should I stick with 5 gallon batches for the first few? I just feel I could get more beer for the work if I step up to 10 gallon batches.
One of the frustrating parts of the process was my mistake on not planning to have extra water in case my batch came up short. I boiled more water than planned and ended up with about 4.5 gallons at 1.061 and had to add about a gallon of water that I had not prepared. This made the process about 1 hour longer to boil and cool the extra water to add.
Going to stick with it for now and see how it goes. thanks for all the advise!

 

[Bobby_M]

Quick analogy. You buy a moped to get to work and ride it there one day. Everyone suggests you should buy a Harley instead. The next day, you get on a Harley and ride to work and think "man, that's scary, I'm going back to the moped".

 

[flabyboy]

I just did my 2nd AG batch. It took me about 5 hours to finish up both batches. I use a single infusion with a the double batch sparge method. My best piece of advice would be to write your process out before hand. I also agree that you should AG outside on a propane burner. You definately need to be able to multitask (ie. clean your mashtun during the boil and sanitize equipment while cooling)

 

[acefaser]

Yes I attempted on of the hybrid fly sparge techniques and that may have been a little overwhelming for the first attempt. I plan on doing a single or double batch sparge for the next attempt. I also heated my mash water inside and use a propane burner outside for the sparge water and the boil.
One question on the boil - Do you have to worry about boil-overs after the hot flash? I almost had a boil over on the first batch and was watching this one like a hawk when I probably could have been cleaning the mash tun and preparing other items.

 

[sv_1]

Please talk me into continuing this all grain thing. I hate for this extra money I have put into the equipment to go to waist.

I don't think the equipment will go to your waist, but the beer will!

Stick with it.

 

[HItransplant]

Quick analogy. You buy a moped to get to work and ride it there one day. Everyone suggests you should buy a Harley instead. The next day, you get on a Harley and ride to work and think "man, that's scary, I'm going back to the moped".

I like it...

I'll never go back to extract...mash in smells too good.

It's also quite a bit cheaper...start washing yeast and it's under 20 bucks per 5 gal

 

[HItransplant]

My best piece of advice would be to write your process out before hand.

Also second this advice.

 

[Beezer94]

Yes I attempted on of the hybrid fly sparge techniques and that may have been a little overwhelming for the first attempt. I plan on doing a single or double batch sparge for the next attempt. I also heated my mash water inside and use a propane burner outside for the sparge water and the boil.
One question on the boil - Do you have to worry about boil-overs after the hot flash? I almost had a boil over on the first batch and was watching this one like a hawk when I probably could have been cleaning the mash tun and preparing other items.

Batch sparge is very easy and requires no special equip.

Fermcap-S is the magical substance that prevents boil over. I remove as much break material as I can than add about 5 drops for my 5.5gal batches and boil away with no worries. Just removing the hot break makes boil overs much less likely, but the drops just let me walk away with confidence.

 

[Beezer94]

I brewed 2 batches this past weekend, and I will say this. Though there were flaws in how I did the first batch on saturday I was excited for the process getting easier. My batch yesterday was my 4th attempt at a Fat Tire Clone. I had as of yet to get a clear wort in my run off, and for things to go smoothly. Well yesterday it did and I got clear wort. I was so elated there are no words to describe. I did a little dance and my wife said I was acting like a kid. She had no idea what it meant. I say be patient. Things get better. I probably moved fast also, but I want to always improve.

I vigorously stir the mash 10 minutes before I want to drain and then don't touch it. Then I slowly start to drain (like a quarter turn on the valve) into a pitcher about 0.5-1gal until clear; gently add this back (vorlauf) over a big spoon; wait 10-15seconds and then gently open the valve the rest of the way. No stuck mash and nice clear wort, every time.

 

[zac]

Batch sparge is very easy and requires no special equip.

Fermcap-S is the magical substance that prevents boil over. I remove as much break material as I can than add about 5 drops for my 5.5gal batches and boil away with no worries. Just removing the hot break makes boil overs much less likely, but the drops just let me walk away with confidence.

Removing the hot break? Never heard of this, explain.

 

[flabyboy]

Removing the hot break? Never heard of this, explain.

I've seen video of people skimming it off the surface during the initial boil before. Not sure if its beneficial or not

 

[kanzimonson]

I never remove it. Just have about 5minutes of patience (which is a lot to ask of homebrewers) and it will coagulate and fall back into the kettle.

 

[Teromous]

Going back to the original post, I would say that the biggest reason I do AG instead of extract brewing, is that it's more fun. There's nothing wrong with extract brewing, it's just that I like having more stuff to do. You will enjoy your brew day more when you become more familiar with your own process. It is a lot of work, but it pays off in the way the beer tastes and the knowledge you gain...even from your mistakes!

 

[bruin_ale]

the first few times you do AG it feels hectic, like there's so much going on. After a few batches, you'll get the hang of it and realize just how simple the whole thing is. Heck, once you dough in you've got an hour to kill (as long as you hit your temp, which takes some practice). I brew outdoors, so on a nice day its so relaxing to roll my brewing rig out into the yard - set out a chair and smell the mash/boil/hops.

 

[CidahMastah]

The 10 gallon is a good way to do it. I brew doubles with a buddy as often as I can get him to brew. Two hands for cleaning, good hang out time, two batches of brew to split. Also 10 gallon mashes are easier to maintain due to the thermal mass.

Stick with it, like everything, your process gets better with time. Consider where you are losing your day (boil times, etc.) In many cases you can prep and plan ahead to remove those obstacles.

 

[rico567]

Man, on my first all grain batch it took me 8 hours and i think I used every pot, pan, strainer, and spoon in my kitchen. It was a nightmare.

Many many batches later, I can knock it out in 4.5 hours from measuring grain to cleanup, and it's almost auto-pilot at this point (almost...).

It takes time and practice to get your process down. Don't be discouraged, it will only get easier from here. Spend some time reading up on all grain process and the science behind each step. Plan before each brew day, and take detailed notes during each brew session. You'll get it down, it just takes a little repetition.

This parallels my experience. My first AG batch didn't take 8 hours, but it probably did take over 6. Now, by thinking and refining my technique, I can hit that 4.5 hour figure. Don't give up now. I had the same experience with bottling when I first started brewing.....took 3 hours. I can bottle a batch of beer, right through the cleanup, in 90 minutes.

 

[Beezer94]

Removing the hot break? Never heard of this, explain.

The stuff that forms right before boiling starts is what foams up once boil starts. You can just add the drops ahead of time and do nothing, but it's takes 1 min. to remove a lot of it.

 

[user 70770]

Brew extract until you master these three areas:

Boil
Fermentation
Yeast

There is so much happening during the boil, many take it for granted.

If you can't get those basic fundamentals down, you will only add variables with all grain.

I kinda second this. I switched to all-grain on my third batch of beer and at retrospect that was too early for me. I think adding the complexity of recipe formulation and mashing process early on is just adding extra variables and makes it harder to pin point where you messed up when something goes wrong.

People have brewed award winning beers with extract so it's possible to make very good beer that way. Even if you have all the gear to brew all grain, there is no reason you can't brew a few more batches with extract and get your yeast handling and fermentation process nailed down. Once you feel like those are solid, then you can move up to all-grain and mashing.

Now just so you don't think I'm bashing all-grain, I brew all-grain exclusively now and enjoy it thoroughly. And once you understand what to do, the process will become natural and easy.

 

[RMitch]

Ok, so I am new to brewing and did an 5 gal extract brew for my first brew and decided to go all grain for my second batch. Holy moly this was a lot of work. I hope the finished product turns out. I think if I continue with all grain I will be doing 10 gal batches (little more work, lots more beer)

Please talk me into continuing this all grain thing. I hate for this extra money I have put into the equipment to go to waist.

But at the same time, you're saving so much money.

Sure you maybe dropped a couple bucks on equipment, but you're probably paying about half the cost for supplies that you'd be paying if you were still doing extract.

I think the problem is that people try and follow TOO closely to exact science when home brewing. They flip out if they throw their hops in at 14 minutes left in the boil rather than 15 minutes. Personally, I take a much more laid back approach with stuff like that. Until the beers start tasting bad...I'm not worried.

 

[CidahMastah]

just was thinking try BIAB - much quicker than traditional AG. Maybe work on that a while more before you go all the way.

When I did traditional AG with my buddy the first time we started at 10:30 and ended at 6:30 (8hrs). We were monkeying around (perhaps having home brews) and learning the equipment. The second time it took 5 hours, and my buddy left before the boil so I had to wrap it up. In our down time we cleaned a ton of bottles, and did other brew related errands too. We have some key issues we need to solve that will save us a ton of time.

Solving a couple equipment issues and usability issues will go a long way. For us those currently are:

1. wort chiller - snow banks won't be here in a month (I hope)
2. An electric burner on the boil kettle and HLT
3. A HLT (right now I am using my brew kettle as an HLT - this screws our timing since we have to heat up sparge water in several smaller pots on my home range).
4. Build a brew stand

 

[acefaser]

I dont think I had many problems during the brewing process and I didn't find it difficult. I just wasn't expecting to be so busy for the entire 8 hours it took me to brew. I know I can cut that time way down now and plan on continuing the AG and see what happens. My wife was laughing at me as I was in and out of the house sweating and looking like a crazy lunatic.
Thanks for all the advise and replies.

 

[Gridlocked]

I don't understand why it has to be one way or the other. If you're short on time or you're not up for the work, make an extract batch. If you've got 5-6 hours, do an all grain batch. If you already have the equipment, awesome - use it as you have time. Personally, one of the best batches I have ever made was an extract batch. But, I still loves me some mashing.

 

[Kidder]

It usually takes me 4-5 hours from start to finish for my AG sessions (batch sparge), not including cleanup. Definitely saves time if you heat your sparge water during the mash...that way you're ready to start sparging as soon as you collect the first runnings. Start heating the first runnings during the sparge (I do 10 minutes) to bring up the temperature faster.

I've done around 10 all-grain batches to date and have gotten into a routine that works really well for my brew day. Only thing I wish I would be better at is cleaning the kitchen up before I start brewing. I do half batches (2.5 gal) in the winter in my kitchen. A messy kitchen or brew area will add to your stress, at least it does to me.

Oh yeah, here's how I feel about going all-grain: I'd rather do 2.5 gallon AG batches indoors than do 5 gallon extract batches indoors.

 

[Gridlocked]

Another thing that really helps speed up the day is cleaning as you go. I found that it really helps to have the MLT and HLT cleaned and drying while waiting for 212 degrees.

 

[bovineblitz]

I did 4-5 batches before I went AG and I honestly thought it was barely any additional work, just a little more time. Granted I successfully built a mash tun in a cooler, I suppose if your mash tun didn't work out it would be annoying. Since then I've tried BIAB but I wasn't a big fan, it seems like more of a pain to me. My results in AG vs extract seemed to point to AG resulting in better beer, but also I just had more experience under my belt so I don't know if that's really why. I like that AG gives you total control.

After a full year of AG I've ordered my first extract batch since going AG (thanks AHS for your awesome deals right now), I wonder what I'll think after I brew it. My AG sessions take 4-5 hours typically, so extract will be a snap.