Second batch not so good

[themack22]

First batch was a disaster. Tasted like vinegar. Pretty sure we didn't sanitize properly.

For the second batch, we did an American IPA as follows:

6 lbs 9.6 oz LME Golden Light (Briess) (4.0 SRM) Extract 4 65.3 %
2 lbs DME Pilsen Light (Briess) (2.0 SRM) Dry Extract 3 19.8 %
1 lbs Carared (Weyermann) (24.0 SRM) Grain 1 9.9 %8.0 oz Caramunich I (Weyermann) (51.0 SRM) Grain 2 5.0 %
2.00 oz Bravo* [15.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 35.7 IBUs
1.00 oz Bravo* [15.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 6 18.3 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 7 4.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 8 1.7 IBUs
1.0 pkg American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 ml] Yeast 9

The Bravo hops were swapped with Goldings.

We put it in the primary for 2 weeks. Dryhopped in the secondary for a week with 1oz of Cascades. Bottled for a week.

Cracked one open after a week in the bottle. Not so good. Before my lips hit the glass, it had this sweet/sour/alcoholic aroma to it similar to the first batch, but not as bad. Poured a dark red with a nice mouthfeel, but tasted really off.

We sanitized a lot better this time. We used StarSan instead of the powder crap that came with the first recipe. The guy at the homebrew store said we could just put our bottles into the dishwasher (sans detergent) and we'd be good to go.

After reading the bottle cleaning thread, I feel we half-assed it and that's where our problem lies. Is that where our problem lies, or did we just brew a terrible beer?

 

[RugenBrau]

What is your fermentation temp?

 

[wonderbread23]

Did you use the same fermentors as the first batch? If they are plastic and had an acetobacter infection in them on the first batch, that is likely what caused the fault on the second batch. I'd trash anything plastic after an infection.

 

[midfielder5]

Well sorry man. Not fun.

We need more details, like OG, FG, did you make a starter for liquid yeast? Ferm temps too.

Were the bottles purchased new when you put them in oven, or were they used before?
How were the bottles cleaned?
- bottles and all equipment need to be totally clean before sanitizing.

 

[themack22]

What is your fermentation temp?

Like, what was the temp where it sat and fermented? Whatever my buddy kept his house out, which is probably room temp.

Did you use the same fermentors as the first batch? If they are plastic and had an acetobacter infection in them on the first batch, that is likely what caused the fault on the second batch. I'd trash anything plastic after an infection.

Yes, we did use the same buckets,

Well sorry man. Not fun.

We need more details, like OG, FG, did you make a starter for liquid yeast? Ferm temps too.

Were the bottles purchased new when you put them in oven, or were they used before?
How were the bottles cleaned?
- bottles and all equipment need to be totally clean before sanitizing.

Sorry, I am a noob. What is OG, FG and what is a starter for liquid yeast?

We bought one of those yeast packs you squeeze and something inside breaks and it does it's thing for several hours.

Ok, I am editing: Original Gravity and Final Gravity...can't remember. I know we made sure the OG was what it said it should be and we did that by adding additional water to the wort.

 

[midfielder5]

I highly recommend the paper book How to Brew by John Palmer. I read it all the way thru before doing my first batch and still re-read it 3 years later. Good luck.

 

[daksin]

Whatever my buddy kept his house out, which is probably room temp.

It's probably this. If it didn't taste like vinegar, it probably wasn't the same infection as before, but it's always a good idea to get new buckets or at least bleach bomb all your equipment when you've had an infection.

Fermentation temperatures are the most important part of making beer. You need your yeast to be in the mid-low 60s (F), and during active fermentation, the yeast are generating a lot of heat so you need to be actively cooling your beer all the time to make sure they don't get too hot. High ferm temps will cause that hot alcohol-y, solvent-y taste/smell. When I say mid-low 60s, that means the temperature of the beer, not the temperature of the room. You need to be cooling your beer during fermentation.

Some people put their fermentor in a big muck bucket with some frozen water bottles, but since I live in a super dry area, I Can just toss a wet towel on the fermentor and keep it wet. Evaporative cooling does all I need. If it's really hot, I can point a fan at the towel for more cooling. Fermentation temperature control is the simplest, cheapest, best thing you can do for your beer. No need to buy anything- you probably have all the bits you need laying around the house.

 

[midfielder5]

It is hard for me to tell what is wrong by this taste description ("tasted really off.")
This link discusses off-flavors & their causes.
http://morebeer.com/public/pdf/off_flavor.pdf


It could be high fermentation temps, but who knows what "room temps" are. My house is 58* overnight now; your could be 70*. more info needed.

What I can say that given the amounts of extract listed, the recipe OG was at or above 1.065. You need to pitch two healthy/fresh liquid yeast packs if you don't do a starter. "Underpitching" (Inadequate # yeast cells) contributes to off flavors.
Mrmalty.com

If you don't want to do a stater, then stick to dry yeast. There are more than enough cells in dry yeast so you don't underpitch a moderate OG in a 5G batch. US-05 is a neutral American ale yeast and approximates the same yeast as WY 1056/ WL 001.

 

[Jwood]

sweet: I would expect that from the amounts of carared and caramunich in the recipe.

sour: Maybe you are misinterpreting it, but if it truly is sour, then it is most likely bacterial. I would doubt an actual infection though, especially twice in a row on new equipment. Did you taste it coming out of the bucket before bottling? Did it taste ok? Any noticeable signs of infection?

Alcoholic: Yeah, sitting at room temp probably means 68-70 which means you probably are experiencing fusel alcohols from a higher fermentation temperature. Fermentation and yeast health is the key to great beer. It is what truly makes or breaks it.

All in all, it's your second brew. You didn't make a yeast starter so you didn't pitch nearly enough yeast, you probably didn't aerate your wort enough, you probably didn't ferment within the optimal temperature range and are experiencing unpleasant fusel alcohols and esters, and to top it all of it has only been in the bottle 1 week (i would give it 3-4 minimum).

But seriously, all of this stuff happens to every new brewer. It's part of the learning process. My only recommendation for you is to not get discouraged, home brewing has what seems like an infinite learning curve. You will notice a huge improvement if at this point you wait for those beers to condition, and in that time before brewing again you read up on making yeast starters (and using Mrmalty.com), researching fermentation temperature control, and overall how to just put your yeast in the optimum position to do what it needs to do.

 

[Calder]

My suggestion is to put about 4 ozs of bleach in your fermenter(s), fill with cold water and place all your other equipment in it too, and leave it to sit for a week (no metal - bleach attacks metal). Make sure tubes/siphons/etc are filled with the bleach solution.

You can leave it longer ....... until you brew next. I always keep my 'empty' fermenters filled with mild bleach solution when not in use.

When you need to use the equipment, rinse with hot water. Cold water will not remove bleach film. No need to completely fill the fermenter with hot water, just enough to rinse off all surfaces (then do it again to make sure).

That will eliminate any potential contamination from your equipment. If your water is good, you do not need to do anything else, but you can rinse with starsan if it makes you feel better.

Bottles. Once clean, just submerge in Starsan for 30 seconds and drain (no rinse).

I don't know what your problem is, but at least eliminate the equipment as the source.

 

[cracked1]

I highly recommend the paper book How to Brew by John Palmer. I read it all the way thru before doing my first batch and still re-read it 3 years later. Good luck.

This...

Until then probably the two most important things in brewing are sanitation and temp control.

For sanitation I personaly prefer to use a bottle washer instead of putting them in the dishwasher. Any teeny tiny piece of anything left in a bottle can infect your beer. Make sure they are clean and then give each bottle a star san rinse right before you bottle your beer. The star san will probably leave a bit of foam inside the bottle. Don't worry about that... Add your beer right on top of the foam.

For temp control, do whatever you can to try to maintain a fairly steady temp. Do a search on this site for swamp coolers or other forms of cheap and easy temp control.

Happy brewing!

 

[unionrdr]

Also,only 2 weeks in the fermenter might not have been enough. The yeast pitch rate is important to getting a brew down to a stable FG in only 2 weeks. The average brewer can count on 3 to 3.5 weeks to get a stable FG on average,ime. Then after it reaches it,give it 3-7 days to clean up off flavors & other by-products of fermentation & settle out more. Bottle when the beer is clear,or just a little hazy.
Then you def need more than 1 week in the bottles. 3weeks to carbonate fully,then 4 or 5 weeks to fully condition for an average gravity brew.
I also love using my vinator & bottling tree,both by Ferrari & available most anywhere. Just fill the bowl of the vinator half full of starsan,prime the pump,then give each bottle 5 pumps or so. Drain lightly & place on the tree.
Do this right before you begin bottling. I have a 45 bottle tree,so I know on average that I need 3-6 more bottles for a 5 gallon batch.
Or in the case of cooper's (23L/6G),about 66 bottles on average. Iow,fill tree once,then sanitize 21 more bottles & finish. I even use the lid off those Chinese take out trays to count out my caps for the number of bottles I can get at maximum. Hope this helps a little.

 

[DannyD]

Hi, my name is Danny and I too was a Green-beer-aholic.!

I was like this in the beginning.............fermented for 1-2 weeks, bottled, and tried it 5 days after(and every day after that), then it taste firkin terrible, then I would sit there wrecking my brain on what did I do wrong, and try to identify the problem!

Stop drinking green beer!!!!!!! (Leave it in the cupboard for at least 2 months) brew a few other batches and if you want to drink beer, buy some for now
(I must have drank like 20 gallons of “green”, “off tasting” beer, in the beginning)

2c

 

[themack22]

Thanks all!

I sanitized like a MOFO this time. I soaked everything in the fermenter/bucket in an oxy clean solution for a few days. Then I bought a glass carboy and am using the fermenter/bucket for cleaning things only. That thing is done as far as I am concerned. Glass ftw!

The only problems I encountered on my third batch that I started Monday was that I accidentally added half of the extra water to the wort BEFORE I chilled with my wort chiller. Hope that wasn't bad.