Schmorgesborg of questions from Newbie starting up

[Baabaadoo]

Hello,

I'm new to the home-brewing scene, but I have friends who do it and would like to take it up. I like beer and want to brew that eventually, but I would like to start with mead because I can share it more with my family and it looks fun. I have read a lot about it, but I have quiet a few questions. Feel free to just redirect me to a post/site that answers my questions. I know how much effort it can take to give a thorough response.

Any help in general is greatly accepted. I know there's quiet a lot. If you could add numbers to your responses so I know what you're responding to, that would be very helpful

I'd like to get bottles that I can use both for beer and mead. I would like to use 16 oz ez top amber glass bottles.

1. Is it a good idea to use bottles for both? I've read about people using the ez top bottles for mead on the forums. I want to just for flexibility while eventually brewing beer and mead later, though I admit I like the look of glass bottles with pretty transparent colored mead in it.

2. How do you bottle using ez top bottles (flip top)? I can't find a guide or post about it.

3. What's the difference between adding fruit in the primary vs secondary? I've read adding during primary can eliminate aromatics and other elements of flavor, but I see adding fruit in the primary being the most often in most recipes I see.

4. What's the difference between adding dried fruit vs fresh fruit vs concentrate vs juice instead of water?? How does it contribute differently to the mead? When adding fresh fruit, why put it in a mesh bag vs let it sit in it freely? Why add chunks vs blended mush of the fruit? How do you know when to do what to get the flavor profile you want (to ideally get the flavor from the fruit I imagine)?
^I know this is a potentially really complicated one, I just want to know what people would recommend and have experienced.

5. Why add yeast nutrients at all? As you go? From what I observe, a lot of recipes vary in this element.

6. What do you backsweeten with? Honey?

7. Can you naturally carbonate a mead, like beer?

8. Since I am new, I plan on doing 1 gallon batches to experiment and get acclimated with the process and recipes. Is that recommended? How did you guys start out?

9. Yeast. I know there's a lot of different strains. I will probably go for a sweeter mead, just to be more drinkable for my family, but I want higher alcohol content (~12-14%+ I imagine). Do you guys ever use a more potent yeast with high sugar content to get a sweeter mead and abv?

10. Ingredients. What do you avoid adding? Obviously, use spring water to avoid off flavors and odd chemicals. Avoid preservatives in ingredients?

 

[loveofrose]

1. Those bottles are what I use (except 1 liter size because I hate bottling). No problems after 10+ years.

2. Funnel and cap. Easy peasy.

3. Primary gives a wine like character while secondary stays more true to the fruit character. Add to both for a fruit bomb effect. Primary tends to be easier, so folks tend to go that route.

4. Frankly, they all have different flavors. You are also forgetting fruit quality...the most important aspect. Mesh bags work for fruits that don't completely turn to mush (like bananas). It's also nice for removing berries before they add too much astringency. For that last question, years of experience and experimentation.

5. Current data has shown that nutrient are much better than none. Read the bottom 2 articles here for a basic understanding:
https://www.denardbrewing.com/blog/category/articles/

6. Yes.

7. Yes, if dry (FG <1.000)

8. Yep. See here for ideas: https://www.denardbrewing.com/blog/category/mead/

9. I use a lot of yeast. I like Wyeast 1388 for its neutral quality and fast turn around, but W15, DV10, 71B, and wild yeast can all be very nice with the right recipe.

10. No rules, but I would avoid anything with lots of fat or oils.

 

[Baabaadoo]

Thank you

2. For bottling, don't you have to clean the bottles in a special way to avoid contamination?

4. What is the difference in flavors contributing to the mead when adding dried fruit vs fresh fruit vs juice?

7. So I can't naturally carbonate sweet meads without backsweetening??

 

[landsknechte]

1. Corks are better for long term aging and storage but flip-top works. Just don't keep your mead in there for years.

2. Siphon and maybe a bottling wand because that attachment is cheap and makes things easier. You will want to sanitize it after cleaning. Use StarSan, Potassium Metabisuplhate or a bleach-water solution. StarSan is the easiest as it's no-rinse.

3. In primary it will add more fermentable sugars. In secondary it's more aromatics and flavours. It's convenience for primary and possibly taste for secondary. Simplified answer.

4. Dried fruit is probably more sugary and concentrated. Mesh bags really only work in fermenting pails. It means you don't have to deal with bits floating around during racking. In small necked gallon jugs and carboys, it's not really doable. You can also use juice and/or pureed fruit.

5. Nutrient is basically extra nitrogen which honey lacks. You add it to help your yeast do it's job. Keep in mind that honey and grape juice have different kinds of sugar and different ratios of nutrients. Wine yeasts are usually cultured from grape wines. Naturally those yeasts evolved in that environment and work best if you can sort of reenact that.

6. Yes, honey works. After you use Potassium Sorbate to kill off active yeasts you can add fermentable sweeteners like honey.

7. Yep, you can use priming sugar to carbonate like beer. You aren't backsweetening. That is when you kill off the yeasts to leave it sweet. You don't kill yeast, it will keep fermenting and produce CO2

8. One gallon is easiest and fastest.

9. Wine yeast or beer yeast is fine. You basically want to kill off active yeasts with Sorbates as I mentioned. That will leave residual sweetness.

10. Use unpasturized honey. You can use tap water if it's clean and good tasting. Many breweries, wineries and distilleries around the world use local city water. Just avoid distilled water as it has no nutrients (or few enough) for the yeast. Clean your fruit etc.

 

[loveofrose]

Thank you

2. For bottling, don't you have to clean the bottles in a special way to avoid contamination?

4. What is the difference in flavors contributing to the mead when adding dried fruit vs fresh fruit vs juice?

7. So I can't naturally carbonate sweet meads without backsweetening??

2. Everything must be sanitized that comes in contact with your mead. I use star san, iodiophor, and a few others. One step is probably my favorite due to ease of use and no rinsing.

4. Think raisins versus grapes versus grape juice. Completely different. It depends what kind of flavor you are going for. This question needs to be asked in the context of a specific recipe you are working on.

7. Your only option with sweet mead is to stabilize and keg to force carb. Otherwise you risk bottle bombs. Very dangerous.

 

[bernardsmith]

Hi Baabaadoo - and welcome. Mead making is great fun. Unlike brewing (beer) - which can take 5 or 6 hours, it can take you about 20 minutes to pitch the yeast after you assemble all the equipment and ingredients for a mead.
2. You need to sanitize anything that comes into contact with your must (the liquor before you pitch the yeast) or mead. You can do that by soaking your bottles (and every thing else) in a solution of Potassium Meta-bi-Sulfite (K-meta) or in a solution of Starsan. The advantage of K-meta is that at greater dilution you can use this to inhibit oxidation (if you are aging the mead over a long period) and you can use K-meta along with K-sorbate to inhibit refermentation - if you are going to be adding more honey, or sugar , or agave, or maple syrup, or fruit concentrates etc etc etc to sweeten your mead after fermentation.
4. I am not sure that enough people have scientifically tested the flavor differences to determine exactly what they are. I can say that adding the fruit with pulp and skins adds more complex flavors, adding juice allows you more easily to avoid using water which in my opinion always dilutes flavors (no wine maker who makes wines from grapes will use water for anything other than washing equipment.. and dried fruit sometimes is doused with preservatives which can inhibit fermentation...
7. "Natural" carbonation can be achieved if you like your meads brut dry. You simply allow the mead to ferment bone dry (1.000 or even lower: alcohol is less dense than water so a mix of water + alcohol (your mead) can be as low as .996 or .994) and then add a measured amount of sweetener- that amount should perhaps be no more than enough to produce between 2 and 4 volumes of CO2 in a bottle designed for holding such pressure (corks will fly off, and some bottles if capped might not be able to withstand the pressure that 4 volumes will produce. A simple method might be to add what are called carbonation drops (available at your local homebrew store (LHBS). Each "drop" (it's like a candy) is good for carbonating one beer bottle.
If , however, you backsweeten you need to remove the yeast and inhibit any stragglers otherwise they will treat the added sugar as a source for restarting their fermentation. So, you will get an over-carbonated mead - not sweet - AND with enough carbonation to create bottle bombs which can result in flying shards of glass - VERY dangerous.
But that said, it may be possible (I have yet to attempt this) to backsweeten WITH yeast still present - if you are willing to pasteurize the bottles to kill the yeast after they have used only enough sugar to carbonate the mead. The issues here are that you are heating bottles which are capped and which contain a fair amount of carbon dioxide. Heat increases the volume of the gas and so you may find that the caps pop, or the bottles explode or poorly handling hot glass and liquid may cause the glass to shatter... To say nothing about the effects of heat on the flavors and aromas of your mead.. But if you check out the cider section of this discussion forum you will see that pasteurization is something cider-makers apparently frequently engage in.. Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer chance..

 

[bkboiler]

id recommend removing the rubber seal on the flip top and clean inside while ur sanitizing.

 

[ChrisVZ]

7. So I can't naturally carbonate sweet meads without backsweetening??

You cold attempt pasteurizing. Can't recall exact location, but there is a thread on doing it. I believe it is in the cider forum.
Basically, you bottle just before your target gravity, and let it continue fermenting in the bottle for a short time to get it carbonated. Then you submerge the bottles in a hot water bath to raise the temp of the mead to a point where it kills the yeast.
Be very careful to get the temp right if you do this. Failure to kill off the yeast will give you a batch of glass grenades.

 

[loveofrose]

You cold attempt pasteurizing. Can't recall exact location, but there is a thread on doing it. I believe it is in the cider forum.
Basically, you bottle just before your target gravity, and let it continue fermenting in the bottle for a short time to get it carbonated. Then you submerge the bottles in a hot water bath to raise the temp of the mead to a point where it kills the yeast.
Be very careful to get the temp right if you do this. Failure to kill off the yeast will give you a batch of glass grenades.

While this can technically work, it's a horribly dangerous idea.

 

[ChrisVZ]

While this can technically work, it's a horribly dangerous idea.

Hence, the warning at the end of the post. But, yes, probably not something that should be attempted without an extreme amount of caution.

 

[Baabaadoo]

No carbonating mead for me then. lol. good to know. What do you kill yeast with before you backsweeten?

 

[Baabaadoo]

As far as equipment goes: I'll need the following, right? Am I missing anything (for 1 gallon)? Is this link thorough?

1 gallon glass carboys (for primary and racking)
Airlocks
drilled rubber bung
bottling wand
bottles
yeast nutrient
StarSan sanitizer? (should i use bleach instead?)
rack mini siphon? (do I need this?)
antimicrobial tubing for the siphon
stirrer (when using glass carboys, can I invert to mix well)?
hydrometer?
thief?
campden tablets (do i need these?)
yeast stabilizer (potassium metabisulfite)?

Do I really need a hydrometer? As a beginner should I just do without, go by taste, and make sure the primary fermentation is a good one?

Do I need a yeast stabilizer since I want a sweeter mead or just let the yeast run its course and wait till it dies? Is a yeast stabilizer used before backsweetening to ensure any remaining yeast doesn't eat up the sugar you add?

Do I need bentonite right away? What's recommended?

 

[Drewed]

You need a hydrometer. Seriously, they are like 5 bucks, just buy one or two.
Don't use bleach, use StarSan. You might want to look into some OXY-CLEAN FREE ( yes, the infomercial stuff) for washing before sanitizing.
Rack mini siphon? Not needed, but damn handy
Theif? Yes, you will need this to take hydro readings. The three piece one is junk.
Campden is good to have, but not necessary. It is easier to ferment to dry and backsweeten, then to catch it on the way down. So yeah, you will need stabilizer too.
You will need yeast nutrients and energizer.

You don't need a spoon for 1 gallon batches, just pick them up and shake the crap out of them.

You wont need the bottle wand, bottles, or mini siphon for months.

 

[Baabaadoo]

Okay. Thank you. What's the difference between a yeast nutrient and energizer? Do they come together or are they always separate? I've read a lot of variation between people using these.

The three piece airlocks are junk? I see the twin bubble air locks a lot. Are those the preferred air locks?

What stabilizer is recommended?

What does the oxy-clean free do specifically? Why use it instead of other cleaners?

 

[Drewed]

The three piece thief is junk, the three piece air locks are great.

Nutrient is food, while energizer is more like a cup of coffee. They are separate things.

Oxy-clean is a type of soap product that is espically good and removing brewing debris out of old carboys and other equipment, you can buy an oxygen based cleaner just for brewing, but oxy-clean free (dye free / fragrance free) is just as good and a lot cheaper.

 

[Baabaadoo]

what thief would you recommend then?

Could you post a link to the oxy clean product you are referencing?

What would the flavor differences be between the following?
1. Fresh cherries in a mead
2. Cherry Juice in a mead no fresh fruit
3. Fresh cherries and cherry juice in mead

 

[ChrisVZ]

what thief would you recommend then?

Could you post a link to the oxy clean product you are referencing?

What would the flavor differences be between the following?
1. Fresh cherries in a mead
2. Cherry Juice in a mead no fresh fruit
3. Fresh cherries and cherry juice in mead

I like my glass thief. I cannot recall what brand it is, but I picked it up at a local home brew shop. It is simply a tube of glass with a narrow opening on one end, and a larger opening on the other. Works well and easy to clean/sanitize. The plastic ones with the self closing valve on the bottom are just ok. Sometimes the valve does not close all the way, the plastic is prone to scratches that can hide bacteria, and they are a little more difficult to clean. The 3-piece ones are junk. They leak air through the seams and do not hold liquid.

For the cherries, using juice will give you the most flavor, but using fresh fruit can add some complexity because it will leave behind some tannins from the skins. Adding either during primary will give a more subtle flavor because a lot of the aromatic (flavor) compounds will escape with the CO2. Many people prefer to add fruit and flavorings after the primary ferment is over. You will get some additional fermentation after adding either because both contain sugars.

 

[Baabaadoo]

You like this 3 piece thief as opposed to a bulb suction thief? What valve are you referring to?

So if you added fruit in the primary and secondary, you'd get a more powerful flavor?
I'm not suggesting that I do that. I've read that adding too much of something makes it unbalanced and cough syrupy. So if I made a cherry melomel and added cherry juice in the primary then 1 lb of cherries in the secondary, then re-rack a third time to bulk age a bit would be a smart move?

I'm buying used brewing equipment in an attempt to save some money. Any thoughts on that you'd have? I plan on cleaning the equipment well obviously, but is there anything I should keep an eye out for?

 

[Kody_Wulfe]

I am a newbee as well...

I have found that for me.. I have added fruit at all stages and it gives the mead different and distinct tastes... I have bottled mine in the old german style bottles that have the swing top and rubber seal... I know they have a name.. just not sure what it is...

Kody

 

[BGHSmt7]

I believe that @ChrisVZ is referring to something similar to this thief or this one (Which is a lot more expensive).

The OxyClean FREE is available at walmart.com

 

[ChrisVZ]

I believe that @ChrisVZ is referring to something similar to this thief or this one (Which is a lot more expensive).

Yep. The first one is the one I use. The valve I was referring to is found on a thief like this. There is a plastic flapper valve in the bottom that acts as a one way valve.

Adding flavors to your brew is an art, and there is no one correct way to do it. I know you are on a budget, but when you get more equipment, you can always experiment to test which methods you prefer. I would suggest starting small with your additions though. You can always add more but you can't remove it after the fact. Only way I can think of to mitigate too much flavor addition is to brew another batch and blend them together.

If you are using used equipment, just give it a once over. Look for things like deep scratches in plastic fermenting pails or dried out gaskets on the lids. Any glass equipment, inspect for hairline cracks or chips which may fracture under stress. Other than that, give it a good cleaning and happy brewing.

 

[Baabaadoo]

A good cleaning with what? The cleaning part I feel is very important. Just a basic detergent and rinse really well? I know stuff like Dawn or a typical one for dishes can leave a residue and I don't want that interfering with the ingredients. Or is that what the oxyclean free is for? Is the oxyclean free used for the same purpose as star san?

 

[BGHSmt7]

OxyClean Free cleans organics, StarSan sanitizes. You need both. Clean and sanitize.

The OxyClean will clean the dirt and residues off, but won't kill all the bacteria/wild yeasts.
StarSan will kill the bacteria and wild yeasts, but won't get them all if there's anything physically blocking it; eg. Dirt, trub, residues, etc.

In order to be "beer clean", you need to clean and sanitize. Typically with an oxygen cleaner and a sanitizer like StarSan or iodophor. If you use bleach, make sure to rinse VERY well.

 

[Baabaadoo]

That's exactly what i wanted to know. Thank you! Sounds like bleach is more of an unnecessary risk when there's no rinse sanitizes out there. So, obviously, it is recommend when buying used fermentation equipment to both clean and sanitize well before using them?

So cleaning and sanitizing is necessary to be done with everything the must comes into contact with. Do you do both to the bottles that your putting them in? Or is just sanitizing enough? What's the standard recommended process?

 

[Maylar]

New bottles get sanitized, assuming they're kept in a closed box. Used ones get thoroughly cleaned, rinsed, and sanitized.

 

[Baabaadoo]

wow you responded fast!

Thankyou. is the oxyclean-free used widely by brewers? What are the most common methods?

 

[r4dyce]

While this can technically work, it's a horribly dangerous idea.

I think that's a gross exaggeration. I've pastuerized very sweet cider on the stove top with 0 broken bottles or popped caps. Check the cider forum there are great instructions there in a sticky thread. The key is being aware of your carbonation level. Put some of your batch in a plastic bottle. Check it every day. When the carb level is right you have to do it that day. Just be safe about it. Use mitts. Keep a lid on the pot. Wear safety goggles just in case. Maybe not worth trying on your first attempt but it can be done quite easily if you want to try in the future.

 

[ChrisVZ]

For my cleaning, I use PBW cleaner, available in most brew shops and online. I believe it functions similar to the oxyclean. For lightly soiled stuff I use a 5 min soak, and for heavily soiled stuff like the primary fermenter, 20 mins. (Mead fermentations are usually fairly clean and don't leave a lot of dried gunk in the bucket) Usually only requires a light pass with a soft sponge after. Rinse well and sanitize.
I am a big fan of star-san for sanitization. It is a liquid, so no dissolving of powders. Just measure, pour, and mix. It sanitizes through acidity. When mixed as directed, it creates an acidic environment that bacteria cannot survive in. When you add your brew to a container that is still wet from it, it is diluted to the point that the acid has little to no effect on the PH.

 

[Baabaadoo]

Sounds good. I'm using OxyClean and Star-san.

Question regarding some recipes:

When making a traditional mead (just water/honey/yeast), is it common to not rack it into another container? Just let it ferment in one container until its clear?

I'm planning on making a cherry melomel as one of my first recipes. I'm going to ferment it in its primary with just water/honey/yeast, then rack it into a second container onto ~1lb of mashed pitted cherries. How long should I leave it in the secondary with the cherries? Should I then rack it a third time? How do you know when it's ready to bottle?

I've read a lot of different recipes and there's a lot on setting it up in the primary, but very little follow up information past that most times.

 

[BGHSmt7]

Texas brewing did a podcast on brewing Meade. You can also listen to it on their website.