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carpathia

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PBW up to temp? Is a particular temp important?

Your Texas beer sounds fine tasting!
180; not that it's important but the heating element tends to get crap stuck on it after most boils, and I need to flush out the counterflow... Or else...

The yeast (WLP 833) is having an unusually long lag time, though it was pitched at 46/47 from the thermowell. Since my raspberry Pi's SD card was corrupted, the yeast spent about 2 weeks after the second step-ups chilling on my counter. Hopefully it starts bubbling soon...
 

TravelingLight

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Running the PBW up to temp to clean the BK and mash tun right now for my first Texas beer: ~5.5 gallons of a Helles Export/Bock; 1.060 OG hopped to 23 ibu with magnun/hallertau/spalt. Hoping it will finish around 1.010 over the next month.

1.054 should be a delightful amount of body.
You're more diligent than I am. I rarely if ever PBW my BK or MT (or really anything on the hot side).
 

carpathia

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Don't have much of a choice; I have a Z-Chiller, a convoluted (twisted) star-shaped counterflow. It will absolutely do a good job one-passing (when done with ice water as the counterflow) boiling wort, or will knock the full batch down to the mid 70's in 10 minutes. However, there is no way to bake it, and it will absolutely get infested if not cleaned pretty quick (I've heard horror stories...). Doing 10 minutes or so of hot PBW flowed eachway seems to do a good job getting it cleaned, and gets the crap off my heating element in the process.

I'm glad I did the mashtun as well; I had some grain somehow make it into my autosparge. The only thing I really need to break down more regularly is the ball valve on the mashtun; my only non-sanitary valve.

On the plus side; I think my main issue was my temperature controller is a bit off, and there is some tepid fermentation going off a fresh pitch of WLP 833. I have another starter going that I'll be throwing in hopefully tomorrow night as well after I can hopefully confirm the temperature of the wort. I'm back to using a heat lamp that melted a pair of my fermenters; hopefully the Speidel is a bit more heat resistant!
 

Lifer59

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It was a great first meeting for me at Palmetto Brewers last night. I think I counted 10 sample beers passed around. That's the most variety Ive experienced in one sitting :)
It was great meeting you last night. We have a lot of great brewers in the club. Everyone is happy to share and help if you get stuck.
 
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SHAIV

SHAIV

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You're more diligent than I am. I rarely if ever PBW my BK or MT (or really anything on the hot side).
I never did either till like this year. I really got my kettles to be perfectly clean and shine by cleaning with pbw then scrubbing with bar keepers friend with a soft cloth (i used paper towels lol) but my kettles havent ever been so clean
 
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SHAIV

SHAIV

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It was a great first meeting for me at Palmetto Brewers last night. I think I counted 10 sample beers passed around. That's the most variety Ive experienced in one sitting :)
Awesome man! I didnt get off work in time
 
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SHAIV

SHAIV

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Hey has anyone ever built a whirlpool arm? Like a drop in whirlpool tube? I have a 90 degree elbow for whirlpooling but i want to add something to my second outlet hose from my pump. I want to be able to pick it up and stick it in a fermenter to transfer wort also. I prefer stainless. Was thinking at very least i could use a piece of stainless tubing with a 90 degree bend. I could buy something from brewhardware.com for about $28 shipped which will work great im sure but just trying to see if i can get something that will work for less. Or does anyone have a tubing bender? Lol not sure if thats proper terminology. But id actually prefer as little drop as possible since my other whirlpool port is pretty low on my boil kettle. Anyway i have a stainless racking arm that i use occasionally but i also have a few extra keg dip tubes. I could potentially use something like that for free if i can bend it right. Thoughts?
 

TravelingLight

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Hey has anyone ever built a whirlpool arm? Like a drop in whirlpool tube? I have a 90 degree elbow for whirlpooling but i want to add something to my second outlet hose from my pump. I want to be able to pick it up and stick it in a fermenter to transfer wort also. I prefer stainless. Was thinking at very least i could use a piece of stainless tubing with a 90 degree bend. I could buy something from brewhardware.com for about $28 shipped which will work great im sure but just trying to see if i can get something that will work for less. Or does anyone have a tubing bender? Lol not sure if thats proper terminology. But id actually prefer as little drop as possible since my other whirlpool port is pretty low on my boil kettle. Anyway i have a stainless racking arm that i use occasionally but i also have a few extra keg dip tubes. I could potentially use something like that for free if i can bend it right. Thoughts?
If I'm understanding you correctly, you could put a 180 bend at the top so it could just hang over the lip of your kettle. Then pull it out when you're ready to route it to the fermenter?
 

carpathia

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That makes sense; less disconnecting to do at the tail end of a brew day.

The only caution I'd have is it seems too easy to have crap fall into your otherwise sealed brewpot during the cool down phase, especially if you remember (like I didn't last time...) to allow for a ~20 minute settling of trub. I think I'm still tramuatized from when my immersion chiller detached from it's cold water hose, adding about a gallon of water to my freshly-finished beer.
 

RevFrank

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That makes sense; less disconnecting to do at the tail end of a brew day.

The only caution I'd have is it seems too easy to have crap fall into your otherwise sealed brewpot during the cool down phase, especially if you remember (like I didn't last time...) to allow for a ~20 minute settling of trub. I think I'm still tramuatized from when my immersion chiller detached from it's cold water hose, adding about a gallon of water to my freshly-finished beer.
Oh No! Say it ain't so! That sucks!
 

carpathia

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Yep. Ended up finishing at about 3.2% and was oddly floral on the hops (attempted cream ale). The other issue was nearly freezing the wort as the temp probe on the inkbird was in the fermentor's headspace instead of all the way in the wort (though why the thermowell has that much of a gradient, I do not know). Did the same thing again with my first beer here in Texas. At least that one is a lager, so the yeast seemed fine and dandy with that.
 
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SHAIV

SHAIV

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If I'm understanding you correctly, you could put a 180 bend at the top so it could just hang over the lip of your kettle. Then pull it out when you're ready to route it to the fermenter?
Well bending stainless isnt very easy unless you have a tubing bender. Idk if im going to try it. The spincycle on brewhardware has a clip that holds it on the side of the kettle. I just bought a 1/2 inch racking cane on amazon that has a clip on it and is only bent to 90 degrees so ill stick the bent side down in the kettle and clip it at the top. So basically ill have two whirlpool arms running from both ports on my pump. Should make transferring easier and make my whirlpool stronger
 
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SHAIV

SHAIV

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That makes sense; less disconnecting to do at the tail end of a brew day.

The only caution I'd have is it seems too easy to have crap fall into your otherwise sealed brewpot during the cool down phase, especially if you remember (like I didn't last time...) to allow for a ~20 minute settling of trub. I think I'm still tramuatized from when my immersion chiller detached from it's cold water hose, adding about a gallon of water to my freshly-finished beer.
I already have a chiller and stuff in the top so my lid doesnt fit on my kettle very good anyway but itll keep some stuff out. Thats crazy about the water incident. Thats why i put two hose clamps on each end of my chiller. Dont want to take any chances
 

carpathia

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Had a thought:. Would there be a downside to freezing a bunch of weight plates instead of using 40 pound bags of ice to chill my cooling water down, besides potential for rust? I have to imagine steel of an equal weight of water has a same/similar thermal mass as water, but not involving the expense of buying ice from the gas station every time.
 
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SHAIV

SHAIV

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Had a thought:. Would there be a downside to freezing a bunch of weight plates instead of using 40 pound bags of ice to chill my cooling water down, besides potential for rust? I have to imagine steel of an equal weight of water has a same/similar thermal mass as water, but not involving the expense of buying ice from the gas station every time.
Dude what i just started doing is refrigerating a lot of tap water since i have more refrigerator space than freezer space. I have a 5 gallon water bottle and then use a bunch of gallon bottles. We use gallon jugs for babys formula milk so i have plenty. Even used a keg full of water once. I start with a cooler full of fresh tap water then once it gets down some i add cold water. I dont recirculate till its around 100. Only use about 15 gallons to chill a 5 gallon batch with an immersion chiller

Edit
I used to freeze some water jugs and collect ice from my freezer in bags and keep extra ice in the freezer but yeah i think i like the refrigerated water better
 
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carpathia

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I have plenty of freezer space; the fermentation chamber is generally free if I'm brewing anyway. Fridge space not so much. I guess thermal mass is thermal mass though, right?
 
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SHAIV

SHAIV

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I have plenty of freezer space; the fermentation chamber is generally free if I'm brewing anyway. Fridge space not so much. I guess thermal mass is thermal mass though, right?
Ah yeah. I dont like having an empty ferment chamber... I still want to try no chill one of these days. i should have done that with my brown ale i just brewed. Oh well maybe ill try it with my next non hoppy beer.
Cheers, happy halloween
IMG_4529.JPG
 
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SHAIV

SHAIV

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Nice brew! A question for lager brewers, can you force carbonate at the same time you are Lagering your brew or should it be 2 separate activities?
I think i watched a beer smith podcast with chris white about pressure fermentation like last year maybe. They were talking about traditional lagering vs pressure fermenting at around room temp. Basically they said you can make a lager quicker by pressure fermenting i think and depending on the yeast strain itll still give you the good lager character. Some yeast strains can handle pressure better than others iirc
 

carpathia

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L
Nice brew! A question for lager brewers, can you force carbonate at the same time you are Lagering your brew or should it be 2 separate activities?
Lagering is really just cold aging while waiting for particles to precipitate out and MAYBE some minor flavor cleaning up. If you gelatin fine, you should have real clear beer going into the keg/bottles anyway, so there is zero reason you couldn't do both at the same time.
 

carpathia

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Question for the group: I want to do a cherry tripel. I had previously planned to do ~4 pounds of morebeer's cherry candi syrup, but, at $12 a pound (nearly double what I pay for regular candi syrup), I'm thinking it's impractical to do all four pounds of sugar at that cost. Previously, using one pound proved to be too little. I'm debating on just doing 2 and topping off with a non-candi sugar (i.e. table or a low SRM cheaper candi). I'm pretty sure that using actual cherries/cherry puree would greatly screw up the color.

Thoughts?
 

RevFrank

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Question for the group: I want to do a cherry tripel. I had previously planned to do ~4 pounds of morebeer's cherry candi syrup, but, at $12 a pound (nearly double what I pay for regular candi syrup), I'm thinking it's impractical to do all four pounds of sugar at that cost. Previously, using one pound proved to be too little. I'm debating on just doing 2 and topping off with a non-candi sugar (i.e. table or a low SRM cheaper candi). I'm pretty sure that using actual cherries/cherry puree would greatly screw up the color.

Thoughts?

I'm no help. I haven't brewed a tripel yet. But I'm willing to drink yours!
 

carpathia

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Come to mid Texas and I'll happily throw you a bottle! Just bring some pulled pork and that vinegar sauce; they don't know how to do that around here.
 

Poopsmitherson

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Do any of you guys know anything about Bierkeller (the brewery that sets up at the riverfront park)? It doesn't seem like they have a physical location (though their address shows online as Swamp Cabbage). I'm insanely curious how they're legally doing what they're doing. I've got an idea or two, but I can't figure out exactly how they are making it work. I'd love to know if any of you guys know the people operating it or have any ideas as to how they're doing what they do.
 

TravelingLight

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Do any of you guys know anything about Bierkeller (the brewery that sets up at the riverfront park)? It doesn't seem like they have a physical location (though their address shows online as Swamp Cabbage). I'm insanely curious how they're legally doing what they're doing. I've got an idea or two, but I can't figure out exactly how they are making it work. I'd love to know if any of you guys know the people operating it or have any ideas as to how they're doing what they do.
He brews at Swamp Cabbage. When he first started, IIRC, he basically contract brewed his own stuff at Swamp Cabbage. But now I think he's basically using the space and has added some of his own equipment (brite tank(s), possibly fermenters). Regardless, he has to be going through a distributor to get his beer to the popup beer gardens.
 

Poopsmitherson

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He brews at Swamp Cabbage. When he first started, IIRC, he basically contract brewed his own stuff at Swamp Cabbage. But now I think he's basically using the space and has added some of his own equipment (brite tank(s), possibly fermenters). Regardless, he has to be going through a distributor to get his beer to the popup beer gardens.
I assumed that might be the case. Any thoughts on the legal hoops of getting it to where he can sell it? (Also, who is it that operates it?) I just can't figure out what happens between the contract brew-->selling at the popups. I know to contract brew you have to have a retailer or wholesaler license, but I guess I'm trying to figure out how either of those licenses would allow him to do this how he's doing it. I assume special event permit, but even then...I'm just immensely interested in this model and the legal loopholes he seems to have found.
 

TravelingLight

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I assumed that might be the case. Any thoughts on the legal hoops of getting it to where he can sell it? (Also, who is it that operates it?) I just can't figure out what happens between the contract brew-->selling at the popups. I know to contract brew you have to have a retailer or wholesaler license, but I guess I'm trying to figure out how either of those licenses would allow him to do this how he's doing it. I assume special event permit, but even then...I'm just immensely interested in this model and the legal loopholes he seems to have found.
Scott Burgess is the brewer/"owner" of Bierkeller. I'm assuming he's basically operating as, essentially, a retailer without a taproom. So he produces the beer, it goes through a distributor to get to his popups. I'm virtually certain he does special event permits for the actual events.
 

carpathia

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I may not be in SC, but I can still bother you all.

Anyone have any good reference material for making a Biere de Garde? I think it might be fun to do a sampling of each substyle (blonde, ambrèe, and brune) and let them condition for a few months or so for the fall/christmas season.

However, a lot of recipes on this site seem to go for some variant of a Saison or wildale.

allaboutbeer:

The breadth of stylistic interpretation is the essence of bières de garde. They are a distinctive set of beers, bound to their French foundation, but with a bit of German influence. They are primarily brewed in the Northern French departments of Nord and Pas-de-Calais. The German nod comes from several angles. Top-fermenting yeasts from the Rhineland, home to Kölsch and Altbier, or bottom-fermenting lagerbier strains may be used. The hop-growing region of Alsace in Eastern France shares a border with Germany. Finally, the prodigious barley growing and malting industries of Champagne and Nord-Pas de Calais produce malt mostly in the image of German varieties. Pilsner, Vienna and Munich malts are all made by French maltsters. Bière de garde brewers use these base malts in proprietary ratios to give the range of color, deep gold (blonde), amber (ambrèe) and brown (brune), to their specialty. The clean and subtle maltiness is a signature of the style. Brewers also make use of aromatic, caramel and Caramunich malts, and the odd dash of chocolate or roast, to add complexity and color. Malted wheat, adjunct grains and even simple sugars can also be included. The wort is mashed for fermentability, leaving a medium to light mouthfeel and crisp finish. The aggressive yeast also adds to this attenuation, leaving a rich yet refreshing footprint.​

the BCJP notes

Three main variations are included in the style: the brown (brune), the blond (blonde), and the amber (ambrée). The darker versions will have more malt character, while the paler versions can have more hops (but still are malt-focused beers). A related style is Bière de Mars, which is brewed in March (Mars) for present use and will not age as well. Attenuation rates are in the 80-85% range. Some fuller-bodied examples exist, but these are somewhat rare. Age and oxidation in imports often increases fruitiness, caramel flavors, and adds corked and musty notes; these are all signs of mishandling, not characteristic elements of the style.

...

Three main variations are included in the style: the brown (brune), the blond (blonde), and the amber (ambrée). The darker versions will have more malt character, while the paler versions can have more hops (but still are malt-focused beers). A related style is Bière de Mars, which is brewed in March (Mars) for present use and will not age as well. Attenuation rates are in the 80-85% range. Some fuller-bodied examples exist, but these are somewhat rare. Age and oxidation in imports often increases fruitiness, caramel flavors, and adds corked and musty notes; these are all signs of mishandling, not characteristic elements of the style.​


This would seem to indicate that it would be appropriate to use an altbier or German ale yeast. None of these, however, seem like they'd be able to hit the 80-85% attenuation, which inclines me more towards the WLP 550 (Achouffe's yeast) at a lower more boring temperature (holding mid 70's). Whitelabs has a speciality Biere de Garde yeast that is seasonal (unfortunately).

Any thoughts

http://allaboutbeer.com/article/what-is-biere-de-garde/
https://dev.bjcp.org/style/2015/24/24C/biere-de-garde/
 

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