Saison recipe with hibiscus

[hlmbrwng]

I'm wanting to brew a saison. Something on the drier side. I'm thinking of using Wyeast 3711 for its relatively high attenuation and also for the peppery/spicy flavor it imparts. I'm looking for feedback on the recipe and would like to know what kinds of hops would be good for dry-hopping. Also a recommendation as to when to add the hibiscus. Thanks!

Batch size: 5 gal.
Est. OG: 1.056
Est. IBU: 28.3
Est. SRM: 6.5
Est. ABV: 6.4%

Grain bill
---
German pilsner (2-row) 8lb. 75.9%
Vienna Malt 1lb. 9.5%
What Malt, German 1lb. 9.5%
Cara-Pils/Dextrine 0.5lb. 4.7%
Black Malt 0.04lb. 0.4%

Hop schedule
---
East Kent Goldings 1.00oz. 60min.
East Kent Goldings 0.50oz. 15min.
Fuggles 0.50oz. 15min.

 

[saltymirv]

3711 is a great yeast. I don't get all that much pepper from it. Like I can smell the pepper in the yeast cake after I rack beer off of it, but not that much of it carries over to the final beer. So I recommend adding 1 tsp of fresh ground black pepper to the boil if you are sure you want pepper flavor.

I think the grain bill looks good, not sure why you are adding the black malt though. You might want to add 1/2 pound of sugar or honey to help with the dryness, but its not 100% necessary.

I don't think I would dry hop this recipe. It will have plenty going on. If you still want to dry hop, you have to add a LOT of dry hops to get past the saison flavors. Something like an oz/gallon of dry hops with a pungent hop.

For the hibiscus, I have added it at flame out and allowed to steep for 5 minutes then removed. I had all the flowers in a bag so I could easily remove them. The wort immediately turns purple, pretty cool.

 

[jerbrew]

I'd add the hibiscus at FO. 3711 could probably ferment a shoe. That yeast is crazy and you should have no problem getting that grain bill to about as dry as it will go. I might replace the black malt with some candy sugar. get some amber stuff and you could add the color you're looking for and up the ABV a bit without erroneous roasted malt. I find that the more you give saison yeast to chew on the more "saisony" flavor you get from it.

 

[badlee]

I would also say do away with the cara-pils and black malt.
My pomelo hibiscus saison is 35% each German pils and Vienna,20%wheat malt and 10% sugar.
I then add about 15gr per gallon of dried hibiscus at flame out and steep for 15-20 minutes

 

[badlee]

I have found that TYB Wallonian Farmhouse goes better with hibiscus than the 3711

 

[hlmbrwng]

Thank you for the advice, everyone.

I think the grain bill looks good, not sure why you are adding the black malt though. You might want to add 1/2 pound of sugar or honey to help with the dryness, but its not 100% necessary.

My estimated SRM is 4.2 without the black malt. I thought this was a bit light, but hey, I guess it's just color. I figured the small amount would not affect the flavor.

I would also say do away with the cara-pils and black malt.

Do you find that saisons naturally have good head retention without the use of something like cara-pils?

 

[badlee]

Yes,they tend to do so.
Plus,if you have some wheat malt,that is head insurance

 

[hlmbrwng]

This beer turned out to be terrific! Funny thing is, after dry-hopping with the same varieties hops I used for the boil additions (East Kent Golding and Fuggle), I thought I ruined the beer. The flavor after dry-hopping tasted soapy and the everything was clashing.
I put the keg in the fridge, let it carb, and about a week later the beer was amazing. It goes to show, freaking out early on is not worth it.

 

[badlee]

Looks like you brewed a keeper!
Well done.