Russian Imperial Stout recipe...thoughts?

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Rod Hobbs

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What do you think?...

5.5 gal
15 lb 2-row
1 lb C120
0.5 lb C20
0.5 lb C40
0.25 lb roasted barley
0.5 lb chocolate malt
0.5 lb brown malt
0.5 lb molasses at flame out

2oz cluster @ 60
1oz northern brewer @ 5
1oz centennial @ 5

65% efficiency
OG 1.08
FG 1.14
8.66%
44 IBU
36 SRM

1 hour mash at 152
1 hr boil
2 pks S-05
 
I think your Cara malts might get lost, and almost certainly the late hop additions. Founders Breakfast Stout has a similar OG, but only about a half pound of crystal malt in a 5- gallon batch.

Half pound of molasses seems like a lot, too - a little of that stuff goes a long way. If you insist on the sugar, I would bump up the gravity points contributed from malts. Some people don't like the flavor contribution of fermented molasses - I've brewed with it and like it fine.

The roast, chocolate and brown malts look good, though.

Lots of dextrinous malts there - I'd be surprised if it got as low as 1.014, though I don't really think a big stout should go that low.
 
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I thought that 1.014 looked too low as well but that's what brewer's friend came up with. I like the bigger mouthfeel on these...Any idea how to get it up a little? different yeast maybe?

I like the caramel-ly/molasses-y flavor on these beers as opposed to the strong chocolate/coffee in some...how low would you go on the molasses (1/4 lb?) or would you replace it with something else to get that flavor?

What would you do with teh hops?
 
Since everyone has opinions, here are my opinions with respect to RIS:

All hop additions should stop at 45 minutes remaining in the boil. Shoot for 45-50 IBU's.
Ditch the molasses. That stuff tastes awful in beer. It may never age out, and it's loaded with undesirable iron.
Ditch your caramel malts and replace them with an equal weight of Dingeman's Special B (or use Briess 120L if you already have it).
Double to triple the chocolate malt.
Ditch the brown malt and roasted barley, and add 1/4 lb. of Black Patent.
Add 1 Lb. of Flaked Barley.
Mash at 155-156 degrees F.
Add 2-3 Lbs. of a pale DME at ~180 degrees F. while heating to boil.
Add sufficient pickling lime to mash at a room temperature measured 5.5-5.6 pH. Sample at 30 min. into mash.
Adjust Wort pH to 5.1-5.2 (as measured at room temperature) just prior to the boil.
Use a 50/50 mix of S-33 (or Windsor) and S-04 yeast. 2 packs of each, direct pitched at 62 degrees F. No aeration. No rehydration.
Ferment at 62 degrees F.
 
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I thought that 1.014 looked too low as well but that's what brewer's friend came up with. I like the bigger mouthfeel on these...Any idea how to get it up a little? different yeast maybe?

The software I use routinely tells me my saisons are going to finish at 1.012 or higher, but I know that's a lie, so I ignore it. I think that too many people read that FG prediction as law, when it should be used as a guideline at most - the beer is done when it's done. As noted above, S-04 (which I hate) and Windsor (which I've never used) are two popular dry yeasts that won't attenuate as much as US-05.
 
In my opinion, there are not enough dark grains. In my RIS I use a combination of dark roasted grains that combine to two pounds(Roasted Barley, Pale Chocolate and Midnight wheat).

Also, C20 and C40 are too similar, they would get lost. I agree with the Special B suggestion instead of the C20.

Instead of Molasses I've used D-90 and/or D-180 candi sugar. I really like the flavor those contribute to an RIS and dries it out a little bit.
 
My opinions:
I would ditch both the lighter crystal additions, and up the roasted barley to at least a pound - a RIS can handle it. Mine has 2.25 total pounds dark grains - none of which are debittered - and it's not too much at all. Never used brown malt before, so can't comment. But I think the molasses is fine. I have a different RIS recipe using 6oz of molasses and you really can't hardly taste it; so I doubt 8oz would be too much. I also use flaked barley, but don't think it's a necessity. And you can even stand to up the IBU's for such a big beer if you need to use up hops.
Be sure to pay attention to water chemistry too. I'm a fan of baking soda in dark beers, since it helps get your pH in the right territory and also aids in mouthfeel.
 
I thought that 1.014 looked too low as well but that's what brewer's friend came up with. I like the bigger mouthfeel on these...Any idea how to get it up a little? different yeast maybe?

A useful yeast for this kind of beer is WLP540, which is a British yeast that's adapted to higher ABVs, allegedly at Rochefort. Who seem to make passable strong dark beers...

RIS is a fairly easy style to define as it's based on a single beer, Barclay Perkins/Courage RIS, which ebbed and flowed a bit over the years but eg in the 1950s was starting at 1100 and going down to 1.018-1.021. Other stouts of the time varied quite a bit, including Simonds Archangel Stout that *finished* at 1.041!

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2015/07/bottled-stout-in-1950s-strong-stout.html

Since everyone has opinions, here are my opinions with respect to RIS:

All hop additions should stop at 45 minutes remaining in the boil. Shoot for 45-50 IBU's.

Barclay Perkins would disagree, they were hopping at 15 minutes :
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2010/02/hopping-russian-stout.html
 
My opinions:
I would ditch both the lighter crystal additions, and up the roasted barley to at least a pound - a RIS can handle it. Mine has 2.25 total pounds dark grains - none of which are debittered - and it's not too much at all. Never used brown malt before, so can't comment. But I think the molasses is fine. I have a different RIS recipe using 6oz of molasses and you really can't hardly taste it; so I doubt 8oz would be too much. I also use flaked barley, but don't think it's a necessity. And you can even stand to up the IBU's for such a big beer if you need to use up hops.
Be sure to pay attention to water chemistry too. I'm a fan of baking soda in dark beers, since it helps get your pH in the right territory and also aids in mouthfeel.
baking soda??? how much ?
 
baking soda??? how much ?
Enough to get the pH to a reasonable range based your water & recipe; I target a pH of ~5.5 on stouts. The last batch I made needed 5.6g and put the sodium in the 70's ppm. Came out great.
 
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The OP should just make his recipe and see what comes of it. Opinions are pretty subjective without actually tasting the product
 
a ris doesn't really need much if any crystal imo. 20+ lbs of either maris otter or american 2 row, 2 lbs of roasted barley, 1 lb of black prinz. cold steep the black grains overnight & strain, boil and add to end of boil. for a 1090 beer i'd try to get 40-50 ibu out of a magnum fwh and another 20 or so with chinook or the like at FO and steeped for 30 min before chilling. this is my yearly recipe. turns out awesome every time.

i have always read that for big beers its kind of a waste to add speciality malts because they get overpowered by the huge base.
 
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