Ruined plate chiller?

[shredthrash]

Hi all,

I have recently purchased a Blichmann Terminator wort chiller. I've brewed with it once and it worked great, however I was in a rush after brew day and once I back flushed the wort side with hot water, I stored the unit in a plastic bucket full of a Star San solution.

I've been really busy with work and I had left it in the bucket for almost 4 days .I had a day off today, so I decided to take it out and rinse / store it. Upon doing so, I reread the instructions that came with the unit and it emphasizes NOT storing the chiller in a sanitizer solution. I also skimmed the "metallurgy" section in How To Brew and Palmer notes that acids over time have the ability to "dissolve" copper, which is what the Terminator's stainless plates are brazed together with.

I noticed that the brazed copper just looked a little strange at the outset when I first purchased the chiller and before ever using ir, which is why I'm not sure if I'm imagining visual signs of damage to the copper. I did some searching around and I'm getting a lot of conflicting information about the potential for damage and almost no info about what that damage looks like...

I am requesting help! If anyone has experience with this subject, please let me know! I'll post some pictures of the chiller.

Thanks in advance!

 

[IslandLizard]

I doubt it got ruined after your 4 day Starsan soak. You may see some early signs of corrosion, but I wouldn't worry about it. Back in the days, before I was aware of potential problems, I stored my DudaDiesel filled with Starsan between brewing sessions, for weeks at a time. It must have been stored like that for well over a year all together, before I changed my ways. Hasn't sprung a leak yet.

Lookie here for a current discussion on plate chillers and maintenance.

 

[shredthrash]

I'm just worried that I did some kind of lasting damage. Once I discovered my apparent error this morning, I immediately began flushing both the hot and cold sides with water - both ways. I'm now flushing the hot side and back flushing with b brite and then rinsing with water. That link was that you posted was great, but I didn't really learn anything new. Appreciate the anecdote about your own chiller's exposure to acid - makes me feel a little better

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm just worried that I did some kind of lasting damage. Once I discovered my apparent error this morning, I immediately began flushing both the hot and cold sides with water - both ways. I'm now flushing the hot side and back flushing with b brite and then rinsing with water. That link was that you posted was great, but I didn't really learn anything new. Appreciate the anecdote about your own chiller's exposure to acid - makes me feel a little better

as mentioned the process takes much longer than 4 days your fine.. although not as low a ph, the beer wort is on the acidic side too and it would take years of use for it to eat enough of the copper to be an issue.

 

[shredthrash]

I know that it was mentioned, but I was wondering if there were an authoritative source that would let you see picture examples of lasting damage, that's all. Blichmann is incredibly verbose in saying that you must avoid long soaks in acid sanitizer, especially star san, as it will cause galvanic corrosion of the copper. I was just looking for as many anecdotes as possible as well as wondering what they mean by "long" soaks.

 

[augiedoggy]

I know that it was mentioned, but I was wondering if there were an authoritative source that would let you see picture examples of lasting damage, that's all. Blichmann is incredibly verbose in saying that you must avoid long soaks in acid sanitizer, especially star san, as it will cause galvanic corrosion of the copper. I was just looking for as many anecdotes as possible as well as wondering what they mean by "long" soaks.[/onestly what difference would it make either way?

I know that it was mentioned, but I was wondering if there were an authoritative source that would let you see picture examples of lasting damage, that's all. Blichmann is incredibly verbose in saying that you must avoid long soaks in acid sanitizer, especially star san, as it will cause galvanic corrosion of the copper. I was just looking for as many anecdotes as possible as well as wondering what they mean by "long" soaks.

well I too have left starsan solution in my duda plate chiller for weeks between brew sessions once or twice before realizing it was bad for copper... The starsan turned greenish.. That was years ago.. still using the chiller..

 

[schematix]

I made this mistake once too.

The chiller is completely useless now.

It has nothing to do with the starsan and everything to do with how much it clogs and is impossible to clean though.

 

[shredthrash]

schematix: so, you made the mistake of soaking your plate chiller in Star San and it is now completely useless, but it had nothing to do with soaking it in Star San?!

 

[shredthrash]

well I too have left starsan solution in my duda plate chiller for weeks between brew sessions once or twice before realizing it was bad for copper... The starsan turned greenish.. That was years ago.. still using the chiller..

So, what you're saying is that I'm probably fine.. ?

 

[augiedoggy]

So, what you're saying is that I'm probably fine.. ?

Oh im confident the starsan wouldnt be able to cause any permanent damage in 4 days. I do believe schematix point was unless you have a way to keep trub and hops out of the plate chiller, this will be the least of your concerns soon enough. which is true. I use 2 large hop spiders myself to keep the hops from plugging my plate chiller up. shorter plate chillers with more plates plug up even easier than longer ones with less plates because their are more possible paths for the fluid to flow or bypass the plugged channels making then harder to clean with water pressure alone and easier to plug.

 

[schematix]

schematix: so, you made the mistake of soaking your plate chiller in Star San and it is now completely useless, but it had nothing to do with soaking it in Star San?!

You are fine what you did with the star san. Don't make it a routine and you'll be ok.

My point, somewhat in gest, is that plate chillers get clogged very easily. @augiedoggy and I completely agree in that respect.

Augie also takes the view though that the problem can be solved essentially by filtering. I agree with that too. However, i think where we diverge a bit is he says it doesn't impact his utilization or hop presence. My experience is that some of the worst beers I made came during my hop spider brews. Extremely under bittered and very lacking in hop flavor and aroma. Maybe using two large mesh filters works better than a nylon bag. I don't know.

In summary:
-Don't soak copper in star san
-Hot water and PBW flushes coupled with heat sanitizing is your best bet for sanitizing. I used to throw my plate chiller in a 8 qt stock pot the night before and boil it. It'd be cool by morning. I then went to recirculating hot water from the HLT, or recirculating boiling wort. Recirculating wort will get you clogged up too.
-Plate chillers clog easily
-The current generation of home brew grade plate chillers are extremely difficult to thoroughly clean
-Plate chillers are the absolute fastest way to chill a batch
-The amount of time required to clean a plate chiller doesn't make up for the gains in chilling time
-The Hydra immersion chiller is a suitable replacement for a plate chiller up to 15G batches.