RubberMaid says "NO"!

[Shooter]

Oh crap, we're all gonna die!

Pfft, speak for yourself!

 

[buzzkill]

So my Igloo mash tun is cool...... or is it. :cross:

 

[mustangracer]

So my Igloo mash tun is cool...... or is it. :cross:

Ditto! So....is my igloo mash tun and stainless filter gonna kill me or not?

 

[winvarin]

Ditto! So....is my igloo mash tun and stainless filter gonna kill me or not?

Breathing repeatedly and maintaining a heartbeat over a period of 70+ years will eventually kill you. Bank on it.

Beyond that, all bets are off. So get your kettle and mash tun, fire up the burner and get to brewing.

 

[vinyl_key]

Good thing I have an Igloo MLT and not a Rubbermaid one!

 

[Chemkrafty]

Come to think of it, the beer we make and consume can cause liver failure, drunken mishaps, alcohol poisoning, and bad decisions that lead to STD's...perhaps we should be more concerned about the product impacts than the possibility that we might add to the massive amounts of horrible chemicals are bodies are exposed to on a daily basis through air pollution, chemical cleaners, food additives, etc. IMO, you're more likely to cause yourself harm cleaning your garage than making beer in a cooler. But hey, that's just my 2 cents.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

OK, posting here merely to be kept up to date. I hate to miss a good thread.

 

[olllllo]

Alcohol is a poison.

As for some of the responses the OP is receiving - cut him some slack. He went through the trouble of contacting rubbermaid in an effort to determine product safety and is sharing the info w/ you. If it's nothing you want to use - fine. Noone's twisting your arm. Personally I find it informative, since I had assumed the entire inside was HDPE based on the lid designation, and now I'm not so sure.

QFT +!

As for the FDA rating, if the CS agent is correct and the FDA has approved it for use up to 120-degrees, you can pretty much bet their tests showed leaching of chemicals past this point.

Or they are worried about scalding liability. Cooler on the floor full of hot liquid and a baby and you have lawsuits.

 

[Strangebird]

Igloo's site says the same thing. They list just two items that are made for hot liquids. And I didn't actually see either of the two items on their site. So I think Rubbermaid, Igloo and Coleman are all in the same boat.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Maybe we should mash in a Hot Tub.

 

[Revvy]

Maybe we should mash in a Hot Tub.

 

[evanos]

Maybe we should mash in a Hot Tub.

^epic^

 

[Strangebird]

I prefer to monster mash.

 

[Revvy]

Isn't that a barleywine??? LOL

 

[Hex]

I've contacted Igloo, and will have their official response posted here when it comes in.

In the between time, I'd like to share with you an experiment a friend of mine did 20 years ago in the UCBerkeley physics lab. He massed a Styrofoam coffee cup before hot beverage, and after. I'll bet you can guess the results. It definitely had less mass after.

 

[AiredAle]

Hex,

I think you're over-worrying on the answer you got from Rubbermaid. First, they make coolers, and testing to 120 F is overkill for the intended purpose. FDA extraction testing is not cheap, so why test at temps the product isn't intended to see? Second, if the plastic passed extraction testing at 120, why would it fail at 160? Third, if you think there are any water soluble extratables in the plastic, then soak your cooler in 170 degree water with a little dishwasher detergent (to help wet the plastic) a few times. That will extract anything near the surface. Each time you do this less will come out, and after say 3 times, you can go ahead and use as a mash tun with little fear of extracting anything else out. If there is anything extractable in water.

And by the way, how do you know the mass difference in the one styro cup your friend measured wasn't just experimental error? Do the same experiment with 10 cups and you get closer to a statistically and scientific correct answer, if the weight difference is larger than the uncertainty in the measurement.

 

[Strangebird]

I believe it was Frankenbeer.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

This is the one thing that should terrify you Hex.

Dihydrogen Monoxide, horrible stuff. It's in everything! And the government refuses to do anything about it.

"Research conducted by award-winning U.S. scientist Nathan Zohner concluded that roughly 86 percent of the population supports a ban on dihydrogen monoxide. Although his results are preliminary, Zohner believes people need to pay closer attention to the information presented to them regarding Dihydrogen Monoxide. He adds that if more people knew the truth about DHMO then studies like the one he conducted would not be necessary. "

http://www.dhmo.org/msdsdhmo.html

"Although the U.S. Government and the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) do not classify Dihydrogen Monoxide as a toxic or carcinogenic substance (as it does with better known chemicals such as hydrochloric acid and benzene), DHMO is a constituent of many known toxic substances, diseases and disease-causing agents, environmental hazards and can even be lethal to humans in quantities as small as a thimbleful. "

 

[Hex]

I'm certain that 86% of homebrewers believe it is safe and advisable to mash in a cooler, even though the manufacturer "...definitely DO NOT recommend anyone putting hot water in our water coolers over 120 deg f." and noone have actually run chemical analysis.

 

[Revvy]

This is the one thing taht should terrify you Hex.

*giggle*

That's why I stopped bathing btw. All that nasty dhmo coming in through my pores. The only reason I brew with it is boiling it kills it.

 

[Hex]

Maybe we can talk about pvc pipe and fittings used to lauter hot wort?

 

[winvarin]

this is the one thing that should terrify you hex.

Dihydrogen monoxide, horrible stuff. It's in everything! And the government refuses to do anything about it.

"research conducted by award-winning u.s. Scientist nathan zohner concluded that roughly 86 percent of the population supports a ban on dihydrogen monoxide. Although his results are preliminary, zohner believes people need to pay closer attention to the information presented to them regarding dihydrogen monoxide. He adds that if more people knew the truth about dhmo then studies like the one he conducted would not be necessary. "

http://www.dhmo.org/msdsdhmo.html

"although the u.s. Government and the centers for disease control (cdc) do not classify dihydrogen monoxide as a toxic or carcinogenic substance (as it does with better known chemicals such as hydrochloric acid and benzene), dhmo is a constituent of many known toxic substances, diseases and disease-causing agents, environmental hazards and can even be lethal to humans in quantities as small as a thimbleful. "

heh

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Maybe we can talk about pvc pipe and fittings used to lauter hot wort?

Or liver degredation as a result of Ethanol poisoning, yeast infection of the female nether bits, the chemical composition of 5.2,.......

Here's one, for a giggle, I just called Solo Cosumer Products and asked if it is safe to temporarily hold a slightly acid solution of a pH between 4 and 5 consisting mostly of Carbonic Acids, Saccharides, and Ethanol, guess what they said?

"You definitely should not! Solo has not evaluated our products for such a use."

Yet, colleges around the world have been studying this use for decades.

I get what you are after Hex, but there are legal issues and testing costs money. For a corporation to make a statement about a product use when it has not been tested for said use would be irresponsible and costly. Even if the only potential risk is from an adhesive delaminating from the heat causing someone to burn their foot.

I have cut open a Igloo cooler that was not holding temps well and found that the insulative layer between the plastic had delaminated, broken down, and collapsed. So, perhaps that is the bigger issue behind the 120*F number. Maybe it is just as simple as the glue fails and then the insulations fail. If the company were to make a claim that it is safe to brew in there cooler then they'd have a Manufacturers Defect to deal with.

With this, I am done. I have had my fun.

 

[Revvy]

Hex, you have to realize you're not the first person to start a thread about this. Hell you're not the first person THIS MONTH to have expressed their concern in a thread about it. We have heard this stuff before. We don't buy the arguments, think it is fear on behalf of the manufactures looking to cover their asses from lawsuits and nothing more than that. We're not going to stop doing it, no matter how many letters you post on here from the manufacturers or what you think your friend's styrofoam experiment proved.

If you don't want to mash in one, by all means, build a metal mash tun, or do BIAB. But for us the cooler has worked for years, and it really makes doing all grain easy. And enjoyable. How you choose to brew is ultimately up to you.

I still don't know why you started this thread. To warn us? Like I said this ain't nothing new. So you could be talked out of your irrational fear? We tried, but you don't seem to want to hear what we have to say.

The third option is that you just want an argument. You really aren't going to get one here. None of us really care what you chose to brew with. It's your brewery.

*shrug*

 

[the_bird]

You know what I heard?

Brewing with bi-valves can cause mercury poisoning. All of you brewers out there who are planning oyster stouts - watch out!

 

[Sydwaiz]

http://www.rubbermaid.com/Pages/LearnAboutBPA.aspx

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

You know what I heard?

Brewing with bi-valves can cause mercury poisoning. All of you brewers out there who are planning oyster stouts - watch out!

Think of all those poor poisoned mercuries!!!!

 

[jspence1]

This is funny, because I called rubbermaid Canada before I bought mine. I was transferred about 5 times before I was passed off to some engineering egghead who talked and babbled in some secret engineering code and lawyer talk for about 15 minutes. When he was done i asked him point blank if I put "Beer" that was 71C and had ph of 5.2 would YOU drink it. He said yes and that's good enough for me. BTW according to the guy I talked to the the is HDPE. Worry don't worry your choice.

I must tell you though since I've started brewing using a rubbermaid cooler I've gained weight, lost the hair on my head, and found hair growing places it never grew before.

John

 

[jspence1]

BWT Styrofoam is polystyrene
HDPE is polyethylene

Do the taste test fill a styrofoam cup with boiling water let it cool and taste it. repeat with HDPE post your results

 

[tunoffun]

Or they are worried about scalding liability. Cooler on the floor full of hot liquid and a baby and you have lawsuits.

Never thought of that. Yep. Wouldn't be surprised.