RIMS exit temp vs mash temp

[bzomerlei]

Full open?! What false bottom do you use? I also have a bottom draining keggle, and ended up with a stuck mash when I very slowly opened the pump all the way...

Edit:
After the stuck mash happened, I followed up on the chugger pump flow rate which came out to 7 gpm! This seems like overkill and maybe even harmful for a mash..?

Rice hulls are your friend. I generally use 1/2# of hulls for 10# of grain, more if using rye or wheat. Very rare for me to get a stuck mash now using my RIMS system.

 

[dyqik]

Rice hulls are your friend. I generally use 1/2# of hulls for 10# of grain, more if using rye or wheat. Very rare for me to get a stuck mash now using my RIMS system.

Conditioning the grain before milling is another option. I now only need rice hulls if there's a significant portion of wheat (or rye I guess, but I haven't used rye).

 

[BrunDog]

Agree with ^^^ that!

 

[cod3ck]

Conditioning the grain before milling is another option. I now only need rice hulls if there's a significant portion of wheat (or rye I guess, but I haven't used rye).

What do you mean by conditioning? Is this in addition to the advanced malting methods used by most grain distributors today?

 

[cod3ck]

Rice hulls are your friend. I generally use 1/2# of hulls for 10# of grain, more if using rye or wheat. Very rare for me to get a stuck mash now using my RIMS system.

Are there any drawbacks to this? Are you suggesting additional rice hulls have no affect on the wort or final product?

 

[TexasWine]

What do you mean by conditioning? Is this in addition to the advanced malting methods used by most grain distributors today?

Read this, and Kai's article linked therein.

http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/uncategorized/grain-conditioning/

 

[BrunDog]

Rice hills add nor subtract anything in terms of flavor. That said, with a conditioned grain and a proper crush, a moderately slow recirculation initially, you should not get stuck mashes.

Here is my crush last brew. 0.038" mill gap and conditioned grain. 60% barley, 40% white wheat. Note the intact husks.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1496852331.828553.jpg

 

[dyqik]

Are there any drawbacks to this? Are you suggesting additional rice hulls have no affect on the wort or final product?

They don't affect the wort or the final product. The one reason I'm trying to avoid them sometimes is that I use spent grain for making bread and dog treats, and rice hulls are pretty nasty to chew on in bread (I haven't asked the dog for her opinion).

 

[processhead]

Are there any drawbacks to this? Are you suggesting additional rice hulls have no affect on the wort or final product?

The point of adding rice hulls is they simulate the porous filtering effect provided by the shredded husks on the barley malt. That allows the wort to flow more easily through the mash during recirculation and the run-off.
All this helps to avoid the dreaded stuck run-off that results from a compacted grain bed.

Rice hulls are often recommended when your grain bill contains a grain with no husk like malted wheat.

Only benefits and no negative consequences that I am aware of. Husk are pretty inert for the most part.

 

[augiedoggy]

The point of adding rice hulls is they simulate the porous filtering effect provided by the shredded husks on the barley malt. That allows the wort to flow more easily through the mash during recirculation and the run-off.
All this helps to avoid the dreaded stuck run-off that results from a compacted grain bed.

Rice hulls are often recommended when your grain bill contains a grain with no husk like malted wheat.

Only benefits and no negative consequences that I am aware of. Husk are pretty inert for the most part.

well the additional waste and cost is a small consequence ... I tried them once myself and I could see how they could help but I havent needed them to avoid stuck sparges. my mash temps stay consistent even with the lowest flowing recirculations Ive seen at about 1-1.2gpm or so from rye and oats.. I crush at credit card thickness and average 86%

 

[mabrungard]

Only benefits and no negative consequences that I am aware of. Husk are pretty inert for the most part.

I generally agree, but recognize that rice hulls are full of silicate. I do believe that most of that silicate remains in the husk, but there is still a possibility to extract some. Every broken cell in the husk has a potential to release the silicate. High pH and low wort gravity tend to exacerbate silicate extraction.

I do try and limit the mass of rice hulls I add to a grist. I find that somewhere between 2 to 5 percent of the grist's mass can be added in the form of hulls for sticky grists with wheat or rye to avoid stuck mashes.

 

[CanAm]

Full open?! What false bottom do you use? I also have a bottom draining keggle, and ended up with a stuck mash when I very slowly opened the pump all the way...

Edit:
After the stuck mash happened, I followed up on the chugger pump flow rate which came out to 7 gpm! This seems like overkill and maybe even harmful for a mash..?

I use a SABCO hinged full false bottom. It is the same as the Jaybird ones. I mill at 0.045" and that allows for good flow.

 

[cod3ck]

I use a SABCO hinged full false bottom. It is the same as the Jaybird ones. I mill at 0.045" and that allows for good flow.

You're still not ripping a chugger pump full open though correct?

 

[processhead]

I generally agree, but recognize that rice hulls are full of silicate. I do believe that most of that silicate remains in the husk, but there is still a possibility to extract some. Every broken cell in the husk has a potential to release the silicate. High pH and low wort gravity tend to exacerbate silicate extraction.

I do try and limit the mass of rice hulls I add to a grist. I find that somewhere between 2 to 5 percent of the grist's mass can be added in the form of hulls for sticky grists with wheat or rye to avoid stuck mashes.

I was not aware of the silicate content of rice husks. Under what conditions does extraction of silicate become a concern under actual brewing conditions?

 

[golfindia]

A sight glass is a perfectly good vacuum gauge for RIMS. And you probably want one of those anyway. You just adjust the flow so that there is still liquid in the sight glass.

I'll second this solution No need to make things overly complicated.

A sight glass right below my false bottom works extremely well as a (relative) flow gauge .

 

[cod3ck]

Ok -- so got to try my RIMS setup again today with a vacuum gauge and (duh) a thermometer inline.

Overall things went well. I did ALMOST end up with a stuck mash by getting overconfident with the pump (whoops). The vacuum gauge saved me big time here.

Question though -- I think I may still have overheated the wart just a little bit. This rubbed right off and the wort tasted right on, but I figured I'd ask if this level of "caramelizing" is normal for a RIMS?

-- by the way, the dark stuff is just wet, not charred or burnt.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1497244250.251734.jpg

 

[mabrungard]

That darkening looks problematic. I usually have a light whiteish, slightly slimy film on my RIMS element and it easily wipes off following the brew as long as you don't let it dry. I'm assuming its some sort of protein/carbohydrate film. I've have friends that didn't clean their elements after each brew and they developed 'smokey' flavor and aroma in all of their beers. Always clean your elements following a brew session.

 

[whovous]

Conditioning the grain before milling is another option. I now only need rice hulls if there's a significant portion of wheat (or rye I guess, but I haven't used rye).

Grain conditioning FTW! I've started doing steam conditioning, as described in this article:
http://beerandwinejournal.com/malt-conditioning/

I used to have problems with my Chugger pump being way too big for my system, but since discovering steam, I've completely forgotten to worry about it and let it chug merrily away.

 

[processhead]

Ok -- so got to try my RIMS setup again today with a vacuum gauge and (duh) a thermometer inline.

Overall things went well. I did ALMOST end up with a stuck mash by getting overconfident with the pump (whoops). The vacuum gauge saved me big time here.

Question though -- I think I may still have overheated the wart just a little bit. This rubbed right off and the wort tasted right on, but I figured I'd ask if this level of "caramelizing" is normal for a RIMS?

-- by the way, the dark stuff is just wet, not charred or burnt.

View attachment 404007

What is the wattage of the element you are using in your RIMS tube?

 

[cod3ck]

What is the wattage of the element you are using in your RIMS tube?

1100 W @ 110
4600 W @ 220

I ran 110 for holding temps and then cutover to 220 for stepping up temps. I originally just tried the 110 to keep the WD down, but it took almost 40 minutes to step from 122-152 F (10 gallon batch).

 

[cod3ck]

That darkening looks problematic. I usually have a light whiteish, slightly slimy film on my RIMS element and it easily wipes off following the brew as long as you don't let it dry. I'm assuming its some sort of protein/carbohydrate film. I've have friends that didn't clean their elements after each brew and they developed 'smokey' flavor and aroma in all of their beers. Always clean your elements following a brew session.

Definitely-- I actually scorched my first batch and had to use bar keepers friend to get all the char off.. so I guess I learned the "clean your element!" lesson early? [emoji28]

Thanks for the feedback on this. We'll see how the post ferment turns out, but I'm hoping I may have gotten lucky on this one since the wort hit my planned OG, was nice and sweet, and had no (noticeable?) burnt or caramelized off flavors... more to come!

 

[augiedoggy]

1100 W @ 110
4600 W @ 220

I ran 110 for holding temps and then cutover to 220 for stepping up temps. I originally just tried the 110 to keep the WD down, but it took almost 40 minutes to step from 122-152 F (10 gallon batch).

I find this very interesting because with 1800w and 36" of element length I get about 2 degrees per minute rise out of a 11 gallon mash... This is at 1.8gallons per minute flow average so this tells me the longer length really does have a large effect on capability... BTW my setup is not insulated in any way and as mentioned I crush at credit card thickness and dont need any rice hulls of conditioning.. I mention this only to point out that its not really needed at all if the right conditions are met. again proper filtering and low flow are key.

 

[rudylyon57]

1100 W @ 110
4600 W @ 220

I ran 110 for holding temps and then cutover to 220 for stepping up temps. I originally just tried the 110 to keep the WD down, but it took almost 40 minutes to step from 122-152 F (10 gallon batch).

Using a similar setup and process, I have not been able to reliably perform a step mash at 220V. If I increase flow to avoid scorching at 4400W, I have a good chance of sticking the grain bed. I have a full diameter false bottom.

 

[logdrum]

Just a follow up on my first RIMS brew day: the controller & RIMS Rocket worked flawlessly, temperatures were held with virtually no drop (I did wrap the mash tun w a sleeping bag) and not even a hint of a stuck sparge. I set my mill to .044 and conditioned my grain as well. Mash out w the controller, single batch sparge. Moving forward I might crush the grains a tad finer, but otherwise a very enjoyable day. [emoji4]