Red Ale turned out tofee-ey - input?

[mrkeeg]

I'm generally more partial to big, flavourful (especially hoppy) beers, but I've been trying to create a few more bland ones for my friends. I thought I'd try a low-hopped, easy drinking red ale - something maybe kind of like a "Rickard's Red" (but tastier!)

Anyway, I came up with this recipe, and the colour came out nicely, it's smooth and hops are almost non-existent (as desired) but there is a big 'candy - toffee' flavour and aroma that I really don't want. (And I don't mean "a slight toffee note" ... I mean "who put the toffee in my beer?")

Anyway, here it is. Input welcome!

7 lbs 2-row
1.2 lb cara-red
.5 lb acidulated
.5 lb dextrine malt
10oz Munich
3 oz roasted barley
6oz dark crystal (120)

1 oz US Fuggle (70)
.5 oz US Fuggle (15)

Notes:
-Mash 151 1hr (thin mash - strike was too low, added extra water to increase temp.)
-Batch sparge: 1st runnings: 18L @ 1.042 (low?)
-Took extra on second sparge, boil extra long to reduce volume

A few of my thoughts:
-Gravity on first sparge seemed low... maybe my mash temp was too low, and ended up bringing some unfermentables (usually sweet tastes would be from too HIGH a mash temp though, no?)
- Extended boil carmelized some sugars? (I've had long boils before without the trouble?)
-Recipe:cara red, dextrine, dark crystal, munich... too many "sweeter" malts without the hop to balance them?
-Thin mash... stuck sparge...?
-Finally... I added gelatin and moved to the secondary after 12 days... kegged it a few days later... maybe it's just green? I'm not usually in a hurry, but figured I could push this one along, given the low grav.

Thanks guys!

 

[michael.berta]

Looking at that recipe off the top of my head it looks like about 30% of your grist is specialty grains. Those unfermented sugars might be causing this issue. Also, that's only what 10-15 IBUS? My guess is that the combination of those two things would contribute to what you are describing.

 

[mrkeeg]

That's what I'm leaning towards as well. Still, the aroma and taste are SO distinctly, one-dimensionally "toffee/candy" that I wondered if it might have been a process issue rather than a recipe...

Anyway, thanks for the thought!

 

[boo boo]

The 120 has a good toffee flavour to it all by itself, and you added cara-red which I assume is another carmel grain. That with the malty munich and little hops to balance out the sweetness will cause your flavour IMO.

 

[Bobby_M]

Yeah, you probably want to back off that cara-red to 1/2 pound so that your total caramel malt is only a pound. I'm sure the longer boil added to it.

 

[mrkeeg]

Well... when in doubt.... let your poor beer age for a bit (has that advice ever been given before, on this forum? )

A week in the fridge has let this beer equalize out quite nicely. The toffee flavour is still there, and next time I won't use as many sweet malts, but this is quite drinkable. Thanks for the thoughts!

 

[ravensbrew]

I had a similar flavor show up in a beer where I used a significant amount of Cara-Red so that may be where it is stemming from.

 

[jlpred55]

Thats the carared. I brewed Denny Conn's Waldo Lake Amber- used 2 lbs of it and it SLIGHTY has that flavor. I would think if I had used less hops it would have been grossly overpowering. It is really a great beer though.

 

[remilard]

Did you use Irish Ale yeast by chance?

 

[jlpred55]

Not sure if the question is diected at me or not? But I used US-05 on that batch. To me it tastes like what Sierra Nevada would make if they attempted a Red Ale. It has that flavor. It is really a good beer which could take a lot of hops and still be balanced. It would likely make a heck of a pale or IPA if you cut down on that munich by half and the cara-red by half. I'm in process of trying that.

 

[gingerdawg]

How did the color turn out? I am in the process of formulating a Red Ale recipie, and I want a good red color.

 

[mrkeeg]

I'm not good at describing colour, but it is relatively dark red-amber, with just a tinge of copper/orange maybe. Slightly darker maybe than I would have liked (ambient light only shines through in a faint red glow... you have to hold it up to a light to really see the colour well.)

 

[hammacks]

Like already stated SG:IBU's and total caramel malts are some probable causes.

Also,

Did you use Irish Ale yeast by chance?

That what I was thinking. My last red done with an Irish yeast tasted like diacetyl... I think. Definitely a subtle 'toffee' flavor.