Recipe critique -- Belgian Stout

[MXDXD]

Hi!
Well... like some of you, I'm planning for the next brew, and this time, I want to go the route of the Belgian Stout.

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Safale Abbaye Yeast OR WLP550
Original Gravity: 1.068
Final Gravity: 1.011 with WLP550 - 1.012 with Safale Abaye (no data in Beersmith, as it's a new yeast. The .PDF mentionned 82% attenuation, and I entered 78 to 82 in my BS, for the sake of prudence
IBU: 25
Boiling Time (Minutes): 60
Color: 28,5 srm

Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 21 days @ 65

36.4 % Belgian Pilsner
27,3 % Munich Malt (Dark, 20 SRM)
18,2 % Wheat Malt (BE)
9,1 % Caramunich
9,1 % Special B


0.05 oz Horizon @ 60
0.10 oz Bramling Cross @ 20
0.10 oz EKG @ 20

MASH

60 minutes @ 152
10 minutes @ 168 (MO)

So... A few questions.
I'm not quite sure of the appropriate yeast. That stout is actually the 2nd "recipe" of the order -- the yeast, whether it's Safale Abbaye or WLP 550, was chosen mostly for the Belgian IPA I intend to brew. I'm not QUITE sure how ideal those two would be for a Stout though. I cannot see how it could be bad, but I can see how it would not be ideal. Anyhow, if somebody can suggest another yeast that would work for both, go ahead

The hops are mostly "leftovers" that I felt would work well. Horizon is obviously there only for bittering. I could probably do without, even if that could mean more BC and EKG, and something possibly not as smooth as Horizon in the end.

I might procure Kandi Sugar somehow - I just wonder if it's necessary at all with this all. Especially with the yeast possibly attenuating a 'lil more than what I'd want.

I do have some other malts on hand, but I just don't think they'll be THAT appropriate in this one (Victory, C40, Roasted Barley, Chocolate Malt). I mean, I guess I could add an ounce of roasted barley, but at some point, I'm already quite borderline as far as base malts/conversion is concerned. One thing though : it's a weeee bit pale for a stout.

I think that's all -- Flame away

 

[JKaranka]

Nothing wrong with traditional brown stout! I'd consider replacing the Munich malt (or a part of it) with brown malt and dark candi sugar syrup. I think you might struggle to get roast out of the current grist and the main contributor, special b, can be quite cloying. The brown malt would be a gentle way to give roast and toast flavours if it takes 15% of the grist or replace some special b with black malt. Are the hops correctly calculated? 0.1oz looks very small as bittering addition.

Grist recap, if I started from scratch I'd go around:
50% Pilsner
25% Brown
10% Wheat
10% Dark candi syrup
5% Special B

 

[MXDXD]

Nothing wrong with traditional brown stout! I'd consider replacing the Munich malt (or a part of it) with brown malt and dark candi sugar syrup. I think you might struggle to get roast out of the current grist and the main contributor, special b, can be quite cloying. The brown malt would be a gentle way to give roast and toast flavours if it takes 15% of the grist or replace some special b with black malt. Are the hops correctly calculated? 0.1oz looks very small as bittering addition.

Grist recap, if I started from scratch I'd go around:
50% Pilsner
25% Brown
10% Wheat
10% Dark candi syrup
5% Special B

Thanks! Never remotely thought about Brown Malt, and that could indeed work.

Actually, the bittering addition is 0.05 oz, which, with Horizon hops, amounts to +-12 IBU, that is, roughly half of the bittering charge, the other half being the 0.20 oz of EKG/Bramling Cross at 20 mins.

I gather that 25 IBU might not be quite enough to counterbalance an OG around 1.070, though.

 

[dcp27]

recipe looks fine, but its definitely not a stout without any dark malt. you need some of that 'not appropriate' chocolate or roasted barley in this if you want ot call it a stout. you basically have a very malty dubble there.

is this only a 1gallon batch? that bittering charge seems way too low otherwise

 

[JKaranka]

I think it depends a lot on what you want to achieve with the beer. I'd assume you'd want somewhere between an old stout and a dubbel. You don't really want all the bitterness of a stout (around 1:1 IBU to OG) to let some of the fruit of the Belgian yeast and the candi sugar to shine through. Brown and chocolate malt are good options for getting roast tones without overpowering the fruit and funk. Brown malt is used in fairly large quantities and finishes dry and toasty. Against most advice I'd say that a stout does not need neither black malt nor roast barley (with roast barley being only used by Guinness fairly recently). Whitbread used pale, brown and chocolate well into the 1960s as a grist, and for a long time before Victorian times just pale and brown.

Check some funky porter / stout grists here and start replacing pale malt for pilsner and brown/black malt for dark candi syrup!
http://www.unholymess.com/blog/lets-brew/comment-page-1

First idea was around:
OG 1.069, FG 1.013, ABV 7.4%, 32IBU, 29SRM

8.5lb Pilsner malt
3.5lb Brown malt
1.5lb Dark candi syrup (end of boil / in fermenter)
0.5lb Special B

Boil
60m - 2/3oz Horizon
20m - 1/2oz Bramling Cross

Ferment warm with WLP550

 

[MXDXD]

recipe looks fine, but its definitely not a stout without any dark malt. you need some of that 'not appropriate' chocolate or roasted barley in this if you want ot call it a stout. you basically have a very malty dubble there.

is this only a 1gallon batch? that bittering charge seems way too low otherwise

Yeah, it's a one gallon batch.

I did add some Roasted Barley (not much really, 3 %) in my project recipe. Also took out the Caramunich and took out a bit of Special B, without completely getting rid of it.

 

[drumuglyknuckles]

i am conjuring up a belgian stout but have no roasted barley. can anyone suggest a substitute?

 

[JKaranka]

Replace with black patent, black malt, about twice the amount of chocolate malt or at least five times of brown malt.

 

[drumuglyknuckles]

Thanks, I an scared of getting an acrid taste from to much black patent and would like to maintain some sweetness

 

[MXDXD]

Here is finally (!) what I'll brew :


Munich Malt (9,0 SRM) Grain 1 27,8 %
Pilsner (Weyermann) (1,7 SRM) Grain 2 20,4 %
Wheat Malt, Bel (2,0 SRM) Grain 3 18,5 %
Brown Malt (65,0 SRM) Grain 4 9,3 %
Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2,0 SRM) Grain 5 9,3 %
Caramunich II (Weyermann) (63,0 SRM) Grain 6 5,6 %
Chocolate Malt (350,0 SRM) Grain 7 5,6 %
Carapils (Briess) (1,5 SRM) Grain 8 3,7 %
Horizon [12,00 %] - Boil 60,0 min Hop 9 11,0 IBUs
Bramling Cross [6,00 %] - Boil 20,0 min Hop 10 6,7 IBUs
East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5,00 %] - Boil 20,0 min Hop 11 5,6 IBUs
1,0 pkg Safbrew Abbaye (Fermentis #) Yeast 12

It ended up being something of a "let's put leftovers in". Not sure whether CaraPils was really a good idea, but less than 4% shouldn't screw everything up. Just making sure Abbaye doesn't ferment like crazy.

Will report!

 

[MXDXD]

Report : My pre-bottling sample was great! Sure, some Acetaldehyde, but it wasn't a bomb. I know the difference between a Porter and a Stout is usually tenuous at best, and this one really "blurs" it to a whole other level. I've been keeping an Allagash Black for the purposes of comparing and will report.

I can't believe brewers in the old days (read, 19th century) would use a huge percentage of Brown Malt -- I've seen as much as 50%. I used about 10% for this one : it's easily noticeable and goes way beyond "nutty".

 

[JKaranka]

You'll see how the brown malt changes over time. After a couple of months you get plenty of cocoa and vanilla too while the roast is a bit restrained.