Question with Rye Saison with Brett

[Sebastien]

Im about to make a Rye Saison with Brett and there's some things id like to clear.

First, is it better to divide 5 gallons batch into (for examples 3.3 gallons of wort with the belgian Saison Yeast and the rest with Brett Trois yeast) and mix them together once the saison stalled.

or

To ferment with 2 packs of Belgian Saison for 3 weeks at first and then rack into secondary and add brett?

Do you think this grain bill could be nice for the style:

3.0 lbs Rye Malt
2.5 lbs Belgian Pilsner Malt
1 lbs Brown Belgian Candi Sugar
0.5 lbs CaraWheat Malt
3.5 lbs extra-light DME

Im not sure if its better to add more Pilsner Malt and maybe less DME or maybe its perfect the way it is?

In case u wanted to know the hops will probably be a mix of US and UK: Chinook, East Kent, Centennial, Amarillo (i like hoppy beers )

Thanks

 

[specharka]

I'm actually going to tackle one of these soon, but all grain, not partial mash. I would strongly recommend using less rye malt (25% maximum) or going no-sparge as it makes the mash rather glutinous at higher concentrations. I'm personally employing a grainbill of 65% Pils, 20% rye, 10% wheat malt and 5% flaked wheat and targeting 45 IBU or lower.

As a general rule, I hate adding Brett to secondary. It is a slow grower, needs oxygen, and takes far too long to propagate into a substantial yeast population. If you're going to go that route, it's probably best to siphon a few liters to a growler and ferment separately with Brett, then pitch to secondary at high krausen.

 

[Sebastien]

I just saw a new recipe today.
Not a dark beer like the one I had in mind, but he did ferment in 2 different fermenters.

http://www.thepourreport.com/hoppy-rye-saison-with-brett-trois-recipe-and-review/

So this should be a good method the way he does the fermentation?

 

[TheBigLebrewsk1]

I'll say it at the risk of being incredibly redundant, "Brett trios" is actually Sacchomyces, therefore you want to pick up a vial of Brett Brux or Brett Claus to get the Brett character you may be aiming for.

I think your best bet is to buy one of the wyeast or white lab blends, I think they are engineered for optimal efficiency when pitched concurrently, what I mean is, the sach grows fast and ferments beer, leaving the by products there for when Brett is ready to take over.

I have read that here is some benefit to leaving everything in the primary throughout the fermentation and "Brettification" but using a secondary lets you achieve subtle Brett character over time with less risk of unpleasant acetic acid production when you fill that secondary vessel up to the bottom of the airlock.

Brett is not an organism easily tamed and your odds of failure are equal to if not greater than the odds of success. Full disclaimer, I've been researching Brett and sours for about a year and I still lack the balls to bring it into my brewery, I am expeditiously reading Tonsmeire's book and Yakobson's research articles hoping to grow the necessary sized pair.

 

[specharka]

I'll say it at the risk of being incredibly redundant, "Brett trios" is actually Sacchomyces, therefore you want to pick up a vial of Brett Brux or Brett Claus to get the Brett character you may be aiming for.

I think your best bet is to buy one of the wyeast or white lab blends, I think they are engineered for optimal efficiency when pitched concurrently, what I mean is, the sach grows fast and ferments beer, leaving the by products there for when Brett is ready to take over.

I have read that here is some benefit to leaving everything in the primary throughout the fermentation and "Brettification" but using a secondary lets you achieve subtle Brett character over time with less risk of unpleasant acetic acid production when you fill that secondary vessel up to the bottom of the airlock.

Brett is not an organism easily tamed and your odds of failure are equal to if not greater than the odds of success. Full disclaimer, I've been researching Brett and sours for about a year and I still lack the balls to bring it into my brewery, I am expeditiously reading Tonsmeire's book and Yakobson's research articles hoping to grow the necessary sized pair.

There's nothing to be feared from Brett. It's a yeast like Saccharomyces and will behave given its operating environment. I've left Brett beers in secondary for months with lots of head space and detected no resulting acetic character.

The blends are a good affordable way to dip your toes in the water, but they are a bit unpredictable after the first generation. If you're a fastidious yeast manager, it makes more sense to harvest and pitch individual strains based on your personal preference. And if you do pitch Brett to secondary, make sure you build a starter first!

 

[Sebastien]

Is it true that i can contaminate my equipment after brett utilisation or its just for lazy people who dont wash their stuff carefully?

 

[specharka]

Is it true that i can contaminate my equipment after brett utilisation or its just for lazy people who dont wash their stuff carefully?

Yes, there's definitely a possibility of contamination. Plastic is a little more susceptible than glass, but if you practice good sanitation procedures there's really no issues. Saccharomyces contaminates equipment just like Brett, it's just not as obvious since it doesn't produce a pellicle.

I use a dedicated sour bucket / transfer equipment for my Brett beers. If you're going to use the same equipment for all beers you probably want to bleach bomb everything between batches. Star San / iodophor will not kill Brettanomyces or other wild yeast.

 

[Sebastien]

Thanks alot for the infos

 

[sd_brewbie]

What about kegging? Are my beerlines and other equipment at risk?

 

[TheBigLebrewsk1]

There's nothing to be feared from Brett. It's a yeast like Saccharomyces and will behave given its operating environment. I've left Brett beers in secondary for months with lots of head space and detected no resulting acetic character.

The blends are a good affordable way to dip your toes in the water, but they are a bit unpredictable after the first generation. If you're a fastidious yeast manager, it makes more sense to harvest and pitch individual strains based on your personal preference. And if you do pitch Brett to secondary, make sure you build a starter first!

You are probably right. In my mind I think of Brett more like a bacteria than a yeast. I suppose waiting months for beers is my only other reservation.