Question on timing for multiple LME additions

[J2W2]

Hi,

I'm brewing an ESB next weekend, and the recipe calls for three 3.15 lb containers of LME (no DME) and a 60-minute boil. I usually split my extract editions, with half at the start of boil and the other half with 15 minutes or so left in the boil.

What are your thoughts on this recipe? I was thinking of adding one container at the start of boil, and holding the other two for a late addition (15 minute boil). Is 3.15 lb of LME enough for the first 45 minutes of the boil? I'll also have around a pound of specialty grains which will be steeped beforehand.

Not sure if the hops impact the addition decision, but I'll add bittering hops (0.55 oz) at the start of boil and two late aroma hops additions (0.5 oz each); one 50 minutes into the boil and one at flame-out.

Thanks for your help!

 

[51mmz0rz]

I think it depends how much water you're using, like if doing a partial boil. If you aren't doing a partial boil (no added water at the end) I would say just add them all at 60 minutes.

If you are doing a partial boil, use enough extract to match the full boil gravity. For example, if your final fermenter volume was 5 gal and your boil was 2.5 gal, add half your extract at 60, and the other half at 15. This was your hop utilization will be closer to the full boil recipe.

 

[J2W2]

I'll be doing a full boil. When I started brewing, I always added all the extract up front. Since then, I've read that it's better to do a late addition with part of the extract to avoid overly dark beers and possibly picking up off flavors (over-caramelization, etc.)

I've seen posts actually asking about doing a late addition on all the extract, but that is not recommended as you need to boil hops in wort, not just water.

The late additions have worked well for me, but usually I'll have two containers of LME (and maybe some DME) and I'll just add half at the start and half late. I guess the gist of my question is how much extract can I save for a late addition without causing issues with the bittering hops.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I was thinking of adding one container at the start of boil, and holding the other two for a late addition (15 minute boil). Is 3.15 lb of LME enough for the first 45 minutes of the boil? I'll also have around a pound of specialty grains which will be steeped beforehand.

Assuming a five gallon batch, 3.15 lb of LME is roughly 22 OG at the start of the boil. I've done this before (with DME) with good results. See my comment (below) on adjusting hop amounts.

Since then, I've read that it's better to do a late addition with part of the extract to avoid overly dark beers and possibly picking up off flavors (over-caramelization, etc.)

Late additions seem to help with color, but I haven't found anything definitive as to how much. I wonder if some of the problems with DME/LME color has to do with expectations and inaccurate models (SRM is hard to model, even with all grain).

I guess the gist of my question is how much extract can I save for a late addition without causing issues with the bittering hops.

The Tinseth model estimates IBUs using OG and boil time. You will want to re-estimate the IBUs and adjust hop additions based on when you add the LME to the boil.

 

[JimRausch]

1/3 early, 2/3 late. Bam.
And actually, you can boil hops in plain water, and will get better utilization. So, a lower sg during the boil will give you a touch higher IBU.

 

[J2W2]

And actually, you can boil hops in plain water, and will get better utilization. So, a lower sg during the boil will give you a touch higher IBU.

I've seen a lot of information that says boiling hops in only water causes a "harsher" (among other descriptions) tasting beer. Perhaps these beers were not adjusted for the hops utilization using only water, or perhaps boiling them in wort has a different reaction than plain water does. From what I've read in my beer magazines, even the experts are still trying to understand all the chemical reactions that occur when hops are boiled, steeped, dry hopped, etc.

The Tinseth model estimates IBUs using OG and boil time. You will want to re-estimate the IBUs and adjust hop additions based on when you add the LME to the boil.

I use BeerSmith 2 and it adjusts my IBUs depending on when I add the LME. I'm not sure what model it uses but it obviously does some kind of calculation.

Late additions seem to help with color, but I haven't found anything definitive as to how much. I wonder if some of the problems with DME/LME color has to do with expectations and inaccurate models (SRM is hard to model, even with all grain).

Yeah, it's always a guessing game. The ESB I'm brewing should be pretty light in color, so I'm just trying to do what I can. I've also read that LME will darken over time, especially if it gets exposed to light and/or heat. So, you never quite know what you'll get on each batch.

I've set my recipe up for 1/3 of the LME for the entire 60-minute boil, 2/3 for the last 15-minutes, and adjusted my bittering hops to hit the expected IBUs.

Thanks for all the help!