Proposed Style Guidelines. Cascadian Dark Ale

[KYB]

No one ever said you had to use Cascade hops.

Cascadian Dark Ale? They push the Northwestern hops in the description. Are there any other hops from there?

 

[alexdagrate]

Are there any other hops from there?

AHTANUM
AMARILLO
CASCADE
CENTENNIAL
CHINOOK
CRYSTAL
GALENA
HORIZON
LIBERTY
MAGNUM
MT. HOOD
NUGGET
PALISADE
STATUS
SIMCOE
STERLING
TOMAHAWK (COLUMBUS)
ULTRA
VANGUARD
WARRIOR
WILLAMETTE
BRAVO
ZEUS

The only hop-growing regions in North America are all located within the borders of Cascadia: The Willamette Valley of Oregon, the Yakima Valley of Washington, and Treasure Valley of Idaho.

There are locations growing hops outside of Cascadia within North America, but they are very small in acreage.

 

[cheezydemon3]

I see, so now any beer is Cascadian?

Or maybe we should research where the barley was grown?

The credit for my award winning ribs should definitely absolutely go to the region the pig grew up in, or the region where the brown sugar was grown...........

And for the record, I grow my own hops.

 

[olllllo]

There is no Cascadia unless they defeat the Conch Republic in a land war.

 

[alexdagrate]

As a resident of Cascadia, and a huge proponent of this style and the proposed name, I would like to offer a truce.

First off, I love America, but in an "America the Beautiful" kind of way and not so much a "Star-Spangled Banner" or "Proud to be an American" kind of way. America kicks ass in our land, our culture, and our beer. I've lived all over the USA (grew up an Army brat and had to move around a lot) and we've got a lot of great places and great beers.

Please keep in mind that the Cascadia movement is largely TONGUE IN CHEEK. Cascadians are a rain-soaked type who take pride in the natural beauty of the PNW and many of us like to imagine the "Republic of the West" first envisioned by Thomas Jefferson.

Just as the IPA was first developed in Burton, but became something special in the USA, the CDA was independently developed by breweries and homebrewers around the country, but it's becoming very popular in the PNW, especially in Portland. Go to the Horse Brass Pub there sometime and check out the taplist, they had no fewer than 4 taps labeled CDA or Black IPA last time I went.

It comes down to this: It's a cool name, and has a bit of wit to it. I don't think CDA is an attempt to say that only PNW can lay claim to this style, anymore than the IPA style insists on a beer being brewed in Burton and then shipped across the world to India before declaring it properly matured.

Please join others in developing the proposed style guidelines to accurately depict an exciting new style. The description currently mentions PNW hops, I personally think this should be removed. Making a CDA with EKG, Saaz, or NZ Pacific Gem would kick ass. If there's a problem with the description, let's give constructive criticism and seek a more accurate set of guidelines.

Once you try Hopworks's Secession CDA, it becomes clear that this style is not merely an IPA with Sinamar added, it is something new.

I see, so now any beer is Cascadian?

Or maybe we should research where the barley was grown?

The credit for my award winning ribs should definitely absolutely go to the region the pig grew up in, or the region where the brown sugar was grown...........

And for the record, I grow my own hops.

 

[cheezydemon3]

The title cites a region. This excludes everyone else.

It is the name I don't like, especially when the style was evidently invented elsewhere.

 

[alexdagrate]

Again, think of India Pale Ale, Lambic (the name comes from Lembeek, a village in Belgium, Pilsner is named after Plzeň, Czech Republic, Bock is named after Einbock, Germany. All of these beers can be made outside of their regions of origin.

Names don't necessarily exclude others, they instead can tell a story. The name India Pale Ale evokes the history of the English empire and it was only through an attempt to better preserve beer over a long journey that the English discovered that copious use of hops makes for an interesting style.

The Cascadian Dark Ale style is an attempt to create a name that tells a story and evokes the region where hops are grown and where craft brewing had its most signifcant renaissance in North America. Whether you like it or not, the PNW is the "Cradle of civilization" when it comes to craft beer in America.

If someone in Vermont or Texas had worked as hard to popularize this style as Abram has, maybe we'd see a Texas Dark Ale or Green Mountain Ale category being proposed. However, this style is becoming VERY popular in the PNW and the momentum is building.

If anyone else is interested in PROMOTING this name and style, I'm starting a twitter feed to cover CDA-related news at twitter.com/cascadiandark and a facebook page as well.

I don't understand why there is so much hate out there regarding this name, and I'm going to continue to do everything I can to promote its use.

 

[olllllo]

The etymology of India Pale Ale is completely and utterly wrong (see Ron Pattinson). Why contribute to yet another brewing myth and miss-attribution?

If the popularity of the style is the basis for the name, then perhaps all styles should be prefaced with Cali- or California.

 

[alexdagrate]

I don't think the etymology is wrong. Hasn't Pattison just pointed out that IPAs were brewed stronger than 4% due to tax reasons and not necessarily to survive the voyage? The IPA name still comes from the voyage and the use of lots of hops is also related to that. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It's pretty clear that a lot of people located outside of Cascadia aren't going to like this name. Fine. I'll stop playing the troll-bait on this thread.

 

[FlyGuy]

The title cites a region. This excludes everyone else.

It is the name I don't like, especially when the style was evidently invented elsewhere.

BJCP styles that cite a region in a title are NOT meant to be exclusive. They are meant to describe the region in which the style originated [EDIT: or became popularized]. People are getting their hackles up over nothing.

Think:
Northern English Brown
Southern English Brown
any of the English Bitters
any of the Belgian Ales
any of the American Ales
any of the German Lagers
Bohemian Pils
German Pils
etc.
etc.
etc.

Geography is a big part of understanding world brewing styles. It is unclear why people would argue with an American style that is devoted to a particular region of North America (which also includes British Columbia, Canada by most, BTW!).

 

[eanmcnulty]

I am from chicago. I like the the northwest is hop country, the midwest is the bread basket, the northeast is the cradle of democracy... It's a huge country. I think the name Cascadian Dark Ale has an awesome sound to it. All of this conflict smells of jealousy or envy. Be proud of it. It is all of your country. I have never even been to the northwest, but it sounds like they are brewing a lot of Cascadian Dark Ale. Makes me want to visit.

 

[cheezydemon3]

olllllllo is just saying that IPA's weren't brewed in India.

It was given a name that had some significance and came from practical use, not from some concieted poster standing on the shoulders of giants and naming it something that boosts his ego.

I believe it has been pointed out that the style did NOT originate in the magical kingdom of Cascadia.

 

[FlyGuy]

I believe it has been pointed out that the style did NOT originate in the magical kingdom of Cascadia.

I stand corrected. My last post is ammended to be more accurate.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

A little birdie told me (well, and the world through a blog post) that it looks like the style will be accepted, but under the India Style Black Ale name.

 

[slowbie]

olllllllo is just saying that IPA's weren't brewed in India.

It was given a name that had some significance and came from practical use, not from some concieted poster standing on the shoulders of giants and naming it something that boosts his ego.

I believe it has been pointed out that the style did NOT originate in the magical kingdom of Cascadia.

It's worth mentioning that India Pale Ales and Russian imperial stouts, two styles whose names you have never complained about to my knowledge, did not originate in India or Russia, and were in fact English.

 

[remilard]

A little birdie told me (well, and the world through a blog post) that it looks like the style will be accepted, but under the India Style Black Ale name.

By the BJCP? I doubt there would be another style revision for a good 2 years and no one person has the authority to include it.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

Sorry, should have been more clear. The comment that was made was that the Brewer's Association was going to accept the style as an ISBA and would broaden it to include hoppy porters and stouts.

 

[alexdagrate]

Sorry, should have been more clear. The comment that was made was that the Brewer's Association was going to accept the style as an ISBA and would broaden it to include hoppy porters and stouts.

I hope this doesnt create confusion for The International Society for Bayesian Analysis!

 

[cheezydemon3]

It's worth mentioning that India Pale Ales and Russian imperial stouts, two styles whose names you have never complained about to my knowledge, did not originate in India or Russia, and were in fact English.

My post really wasn't that long, did you read it?

I explained that I like the IPA name because it came from practical use and that people in India didn't brew it.......

Oh, sorry, didn't see your username.

 

[slowbie]

Oh, sorry, didn't see your username.

Way to be creative and mature.

And I'm sorry that I didn't realize that you have no idea what you're talking about. Do a quick google search for cascadian dark ale. I'll wait.


So, the only results you got were this thread, right? Obviously the OP just made up the name when he started this thread.

 

[carnevoodoo]

India Style Black Ale is a great name for this style. I'm down with that.

 

[KYB]

AHTANUM
AMARILLO
CASCADE
CENTENNIAL
CHINOOK
CRYSTAL
GALENA
HORIZON
LIBERTY
MAGNUM
MT. HOOD
NUGGET
PALISADE
STATUS
SIMCOE
STERLING
TOMAHAWK (COLUMBUS)
ULTRA
VANGUARD
WARRIOR
WILLAMETTE
BRAVO
ZEUS

The only hop-growing regions in North America are all located within the borders of Cascadia: The Willamette Valley of Oregon, the Yakima Valley of Washington, and Treasure Valley of Idaho.

There are locations growing hops outside of Cascadia within North America, but they are very small in acreage.

Have all of those originated from there? Upon further research I am now aware that more hops originated around there than I had thought. No need to be a ********* because you live in the precious kingdom of Cascadia.

 

[alexdagrate]

Have all of those originated from there? Upon further research I am now aware that more hops originated around there than I had thought. No need to be a ********* because you live in the precious kingdom of Cascadia.

What's the deal with all the hate coming from Kentucky? I used to live there as a kid and always thought fondly of it.

Look, the guy asked if any hops came from the PNW other than Cascade. That like asking if there are any Belgian beers other than Stella Artois.

And by the way, it's the Republic of Cascadia, not a kingdom.

 

[cheezydemon3]

What's the deal with all the hate coming from Kentucky? I used to live there as a kid and always thought fondly of it.

Look, the guy asked if any hops came from the PNW other than Cascade. That like asking if there are any Belgian beers other than Stella Artois.

And by the way, it's the Republic of Cascadia, not a kingdom.

HA!! Never noticed that.

Actually we are not fond of it here, so we hate people who live in the mythical.....republic.

Look, I am OK with discussion, but the whole "It's our ball so we make the rules" attitude I am sensing here isn't cool.

You all call it what you want to, but don't expect me to.

 

[eanmcnulty]

I like the name Cascadian Dark Ale. Has a nice ring to it. There already is a style India Ale. Why not pick something different? Why not honor the Northwest region with a style? I vote for CDA! Do I get a vote?

 

[carnevoodoo]

I like the name Cascadian Dark Ale. Has a nice ring to it. There already is a style India Ale. Why not pick something different? Why not honor the Northwest region with a style? I vote for CDA! Do I get a vote?

Doubt it. 10.

 

[alexdagrate]

the whole "It's our ball so we make the rules" attitude I am sensing here isn't cool.
.

point well taken. i agree that i cast the first stone.

i can understand how the regionalistic nature of the CDA can irk some. I'll try to be civil and less of a jerk about it when posting on HBT, but I'm still a VERY vocal proponent for this style and this name, but I'll remember to keep it civil in the future.

 

[dunnright00]

Classic Examples:... Walking Man Big Black Homo, ...

Hee hee... I never noiced that before! Never heard of it, but it's a damn funny name!

edit: So, from now on, if anyone asks for an example of a Cascadian Dark Ale, we tell them to look for a Big Black Homo!
I know carne will like that!

 

[Synovia]

I like the name Cascadian Dark Ale. Has a nice ring to it. There already is a style India Ale. Why not pick something different? Why not honor the Northwest region with a style? I vote for CDA! Do I get a vote?

Because its not their style.

 

[weirdboy]

We should name it Tiger Ale because it's dark and bitter and smells like pinecones, and after a few you'll screw anything with a pulse.

Does that make any more sense than naming it after a particular region of the country?