Proposed Style Guidelines. Cascadian Dark Ale

[remilard]

I like American Dark Ale, brown to black, IPA strength in gravity and bittering, roasty/chocolately but less so than Robust Porter. Any type of hops, with at least moderate aroma and flavor. I would think you would have to put this in category 14 rather than 10, as it would make it very hard to win in category 10 with anything other than A or D.

 

[NYCHomebrewer]

Isn't Crystal sort of a quintissential NW hops? I mean, sure its ancestry is german but it is a hybrid created in Corvallis, OR dating back to about 1980.

 

[remilard]

The below was proposed about two years ago on the BJCP forum, and is possibly the best way to go (certainly better than what is in the OP). This is easy to find on the BJCP forum, but you have to register to read it. One thing that was pointed out there that is clearly wrong is that oaked IPAs should be in 22C.

14D. Specialty IPA

OG: 1.050-1.090
FG: 1.010-1.025
IBUs: 40+
SRM: Varies with ingredients used
IBU: 5.5-10%

Aroma: Prominent hop presence dominates the aroma. If any aromatic other than hops is used (such as oak or spruce tips) it should contribute to the hop character rather than featuring as its own flavor. Examples with a prominent independent fruit or spice character in the aroma should be entered in the appropriate fruit or spice category. Dry hop aromas are acceptable but not required. Some alcohol is acceptable in stronger examples. Malt character should be present but secondary characteristics may vary based on specialty ingredients. Optional slight fruitiness from yeast.

Appearance: Color will vary and may be golden to black. Clear, although dry hopped examples may be slightly hazy. A firm, long-lasting head is preferred.

Flavor: Medium to very strong hop flavor is central to the beer's flavor, backed by a lower but detectable malt flavor and sweetness. Significant but smooth bitterness from hops. If any aromatic other than hops is used (such as oak or spruce tips) it should contribute to the hop character rather than featuring as its own flavor. Examples with a prominent independent fruit or spice character in the flavor should be entered in the appropriate fruit or spice category. Malt should feature some sweetness, but secondary characteristics will vary based on specialty ingredients. Optional slight fruitiness from yeast.

Mouthfeel: Smooth, medium-light to medium-bodied mouthfeel without hop-derived astringency, although moderate to medium-high carbonation can combine to render an overall dry sensation in the presence of malt sweetness. Some smooth alcohol warming can and should be sensed in stronger (but not all) versions.

Overall Impression: A hop-centered, malty beer that is set apart from an ordinary IPA or Imperial IPA by the use of specialty ingredients or processes that contribute to the overall hop and malt character.

Comments: This category is intended for English or American IPAs or Imperial IPAs that also include one or more specialty ingredients or processes. Because grain and hops should still dominate, only those specialty ingredients and processes that complement, rather than overwhelming, the basic qualities that make a beer an IPA are appropriate: specialty grains such as rye; certain herbs that enhance hop bitterness or flavor without dominating themselves; certain dark grains that still allow a strong sweet malt backbone; and mild oak or wood character. Beers with strong, independent fruit or spice character, or where a strong wood-aged character or strong specialty malt character (such as roasted or smoked malt flavor) dominates, should be entered in the appropriate specialty category.

History: With the popularity of the IPA and Imperial IPA styles, brewers quickly began developing slight variations that were still true to the IPA style. Rye, chocolate malt, and oak aging, among others, were all used to enhance the sweet, malty, hoppy character of the underlying beer.

Ingredients: A base of well-modified pale ale malt and any kind of hops, plus one or more specialty ingredients or processes that may include specialty grains such as rye; wood aging; additions of specialty grains; or the use of hop alternatives such as spruce or heather tips or juniper berries. Any specialty ingredient should complement, rather than overwhelm, the distinctive characteristics of the underlying style. As a result, most fruits and spices are not appropriate for this style. American yeast that can give a clean or slightly fruity profile. Generally all-malt, but mashed at lower temperatures for high attenuation. Water character varies from soft to moderately sulfate.

Commercial Examples: Alpine Rye IPA, Founder's Red Rye, Stone 11th Anniversary Ale, Innis & Gunn Oak Aged IPA, Goose Island Oak-Aged Imperial IPA

I like this better than what I proposed a couple posts above, because it gets Rye IPAs in there too, and those are by far more common among home brewers than black IPAs (I suspect brown IPAs are too).

 

[remilard]

Isn't Crystal sort of a quintissential NW hops? I mean, sure its ancestry is german but it is a hybrid created in Corvallis, OR dating back to about 1980.

Yeah, good luck telling it from hallertau in a big roasty IPA. If any variety grown or bred in Oregon is "signature NW" you can use any hop you please with few limitations and it will be hard for the judge to call you on it.

 

[NYCHomebrewer]

Two thumbs up for the Specialty IPA category.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I'm not crazy about the name but less put off by it than many itt. While I prefer the descriptors rather than the abundant PNW references I don't mind mentioning the PNW (or 'North American') when referring to the hops. "North American hops" and "PNW Hops" are pretty much the same thing. But if the guidelines usually say 'North American' instead of 'PNW' then this style guideline should stay consistent with that imo.

I'm no beer color expert but it seems that at 40+ SRM, how much if any 'ruby highlights' can there be? Seems more blackerer.

Food Pairing: Brisket or chicken-fried steak.

 

[Scooby_Brew]

C'mon - the beer style came from Cascadia and people who created it want to call it a Cascadian Dark Ale. So what's so difficult to understand? I'm calling the beer a "Cascadian Dark Ale".


Plus this flag will make for a cool label

 

[phasedweasel]

C'mon - the beer style came from Cascadia and people who created it ...

That appears to not necessarily be the case.

 

[remilard]

If you limited it to black, we can call it Noonian Black Ale, if we expand it to dark we can call it Texas Dark Ale, under no circumstances did black or brown variants originate in the PNW. If you want to make a historical reference in naming the beer, it should be accurate.

40 SRM is opaque, many RIS are not that dark. The appearance section combined with commercial examples seems to indicate a range of 20-35 SRM.

 

[Edcculus]

Now that you mention it, it makes a lot more sense to lump this beer into the Specialty IPA category.

 

[carnevoodoo]

I think that is fair.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

Not that this will take anything one way or the other, but the TTB has just approved use of Cascadian Dark Ale...

http://oakbrew.com/

 

[Edcculus]

Well, you can pretty much name a beer anything you want, as long as its not obscene right? The Government isn't looking at BJCP styles to allow people to name beer.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

No, they're not looking at BJCP guidelines, but they are very picky. They have rejected some of our labels simply for putting Product of the USA on the darn thing. As I said, I know this wasn't going to sway one way or the other, but it is interesting that the TTB approved.

 

[remilard]

The TTB approved Arrogant Bastard, was there any concern about approving cascadian dark ale?

 

[jjones17]

Mmmmm.... Phillips Black Toque. Love that beer!



And you are right -- that flavour description is terribly worded. I think they mean a balance of flavours, although hop flavour should be most prominant. Presumably the beer should also be well balanced with respect to hop BITTERNESS and dryness from the roast malt and the malt sweetness. They don't actually say this, but of the two commercial examples I have tasted in the style examples that would seem to be true.

WOAH! A fellow canadian I see! I love phillips beer... and I tried Black Touque before I started brewing and my hop tolerance was WAYYYY low. It kicked my a$$ like a sidekick from chuck norris. But I now love it

Amnesiac is an awesome beer by Phillips as well.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

The TTB approved Arrogant Bastard, was there any concern about approving cascadian dark ale?

The way the TTB works you're always concerned about what they will do.

 

[KYB]

I don't like Cascadian Dark Ale, or Black IPA.

I just brewed one that will be over 8% abv. So is mine an "Imperial Cascadian Dark Ale". That's a mouthful.

 

[carnevoodoo]

AMERICAN DARK ALE kind of covers all the bases, no? Sounds great, guys. Thanks.

 

[Scooby_Brew]

no?

No.

Half of Cascadia is in Canada so American Dark Ale does not fit.

 

[carnevoodoo]

No.

Half of Cascadia is in Canada so American Dark Ale does not fit.

Right, but these guys aren't talking about Canada. They only care that their precious Northwest is given recognition.

 

[DrDirt]

No.

Half of Cascadia is in Canada so American Dark Ale does not fit.

Um, perhaps I missed that day of geography but I was under the impression that North America was comprised of Canada, US and Mexico. Ergo, Canada is in America, the continent (but not in the United States of America, the nation)

 

[Scooby_Brew]

Oh I see, so ***** Modelo is an American Lager, since Mexico is in North America?

 

[Thakog]

Actually, I like the term American Dark Ale- it conveys the important contributions made by folks living in Brazil, Honduras, Peru, and Chile. =p

In all seriousness, it's better than the oxymoronic black ipa, or BIPA, but I still prefer Cascadian Dark Ale. Just because we have the internet, and wonderful forums like HBT doesn't mean that we cannot or should not recognize regionality in the naming of new styles.

That includes renaming the style a Texas Brown Ale too. It would still be better than an infinitely generic black IPA.

 

[DrDirt]

Oh I see, so ***** Modelo is an American Lager, since Mexico is in North America?

technically, yes.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

Right, but these guys aren't talking about Canada. They only care that their precious Northwest is given recognition.

Um...take a look at the definition of "Cascadia". Clearly states the Canada is included. I, and I'm sure most in this region, believe Canada to be just as much of the PACIFIC North West as OR, WA and even Northern CA...yes, your precious state of CA is even included. Do you feel better now?

 

[olllllo]

Negra Modelo
Negra Modelo
and it's 3A. Vienna Lager

 

[remilard]

If you want to name the beer after the region that created it, it doesn't matter where Canada is unless it is in Vermont or Texas.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

Canadia is pretty darn close to VT

 

[david_42]

Is someone unhappy about California Common?